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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=337031306-21032007>Ho ho ho. I'd just been trying to remember if Dr
Vormance's first name is mentioned, and then thanks to the pynchon wiki realised
it's Alden. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=337031306-21032007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=337031306-21032007>If the Vormance bit was a vaguely germanic hint at
"prediction" or something...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=337031306-21032007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=337031306-21032007>al den would preface this with "aluminian that".
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=337031306-21032007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=337031306-21032007>Just thought that would be rather
pynchonian.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=337031306-21032007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=337031306-21032007>Also, did we get anywhere with what happens to the
American "city" in the rest of the novel? If it's NY (and come on, there are no
other cities it might refer to, though I'm not taking away from the deliberate
ambiguity) then plenty of characters will be wandering round New York in a few
scant chapters with no, er, fallout. Is it NY Hunter first resurfaces later?
Can't recall. If so, you could see his Escape from New York not as a literal
movement but of shifting realities, from a post-apocalyptic one to...something
else. An imaginative relocation.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=337031306-21032007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=337031306-21032007>Or, in a more AtD way, these characters (inc Chums,
later Lew, and so on) bilocate. They don't exist as real or fictional within the
diegetic world of the novel. They exist (sometimes) in several of the various
realities it establishes.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=337031306-21032007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=337031306-21032007>Also, the other novel most associated with NY in AtD is
Dally, and she and Hunter will share a fair bit of time together later in the
novel, again in the context of framing (paintings, realities,
etc).</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> owner-pynchon-l@waste.org
[mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>davemarc<BR><B>Sent:</B>
Wednesday, 21 March 2007 2:21 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pynchlist<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
ATDTDA (5.1) - The Etienne-Louis Malus<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Vormance--could it be foreshadowing? That would actually be
pretty funny if the section is understood as, say, a Lovecraft parody. An
outstanding quality of Lovecraft is his penchant for extended foreshadowing,
spending pages building up a dreadful revelation. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><A
href="http://www.lovecraftcountry.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-106.html">http://www.lovecraftcountry.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-106.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Still cautious about overemphasizing the 9/11
connection--especially in this section,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>d.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=JBAILEY@theage.com.au href="mailto:JBAILEY@theage.com.au">John
BAILEY</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pynchon-l@waste.org
href="mailto:pynchon-l@waste.org">pynchon-l@waste.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 20, 2007 6:54
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: ATDTDA (5.1) - The
Etienne-Louis Malus</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=406265223-20032007>Re: "Vormance" - and sorry if this has been
mentioned, skimming here - but I take it as something to do
with...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=406265223-20032007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=406265223-20032007>"vor" - in front of, fore in German, maybe other
teutonic tongues</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=406265223-20032007>and </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=406265223-20032007>"mance" - like "-mancy", divination
etc.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=406265223-20032007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=406265223-20032007>Basically, foresight, scrying, prediction. Which
totally fits with the readings of this section of the novel as presaging 9/11,
and themselves seeming eerily presaged in the lead-up.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> owner-pynchon-l@waste.org
[mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>David
Casseres<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 21 March 2007 10:27 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Monte
Davis<BR><B>Cc:</B> pynchon-l@waste.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: ATDTDA (5.1) -
The Etienne-Louis Malus<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>I can't help thinking of those many different versions of "The
Mummy's Curse," in which a group of scientists, against the earnest advice of
their guides, take an artifact out of its concealment and ship it home for
their museum. And as soon as they get to New York, it breaks out of its
confinement and causes havoc. <BR><BR>Dr. Vormance himself points out the
parallel on p. 141. And while I can't find the text just now, isn't the
"nunatak" described as pyramidal in shape?<BR><BR>Just a wild-ass guess, but I
think if you actually dug through all those old movies, you'd eventually
stumble across a name that looked like "Vormance." <BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 3/20/07, <B class=gmail_sendername>Monte
Davis</B> <<A href="mailto:monte.davis@bms.com">monte.davis@bms.com</A>>
wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Robin:<BR><BR>>>I'm
sure we'll get into more detail, but the<BR>>>"Vormance Expedition" is
Pynchon's vision of 9/11, moved into the<BR>>>time zone and period
ambience of Against the Day. <BR>>><BR>I'm with you that the
*destruction of the city* has no other resonance<BR>nearly as loud as 9/11,
but I'm not sure that extends to the expedition<BR>itself -- which as
davemarc says, owes more to Shelley, Poe, and Lovecraft. <BR><BR>Whatever we
(or for that matter Al Qaeda or the conspiracy buff on the<BR>corner) may
advance as the "causes of" or "reasons for" 9/11, I don't<BR>see
how they map to "scientists dig up and bring home an ancient <BR>artifact,
suggestive of pre- or non-human origin, that they should
have<BR>left untouched."<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
<P></P>
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