<font color='black' size='2' face='arial'><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">In Jomo Kenyatta's book, Facing Mt. Kenya, he recounts that when Gikuyu children reached puberty they were allowed to avail themselves of a particular place to go experiment and play around with sex, boys and girls, to learn together. Of course, we're talking about savages ... </font><br>
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<div style="font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 10pt; color: black; ">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston@gmail.com><br>
To: Paul Mackin <mackin.paul@verizon.net><br>
Cc: pynchon-l <pynchon-l@waste.org><br>
Sent: Wed, Feb 13, 2013 12:49 pm<br>
Subject: Re: (np) New Pope?<br>
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Good questions both. I wonder about the first often. I wonder if appropriate sexual education couldn't be more successfully grafted into primary schools, so that kids could learn what is and is not appropriate outside the rumor mill. Could sex education be incremental instead of the "okay, here's how it's done, don't forget the rubbers" approach kids get now. There was a time it was up to parents, but they've never really been reliable communicators, have they? No one ever gave me the scoop. Had to learn it after the fashion of animals. Never mind the embarrassing moments.
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<div>I have known adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse who developed profoundly disturbing post-traumatic stress disorders on the margin of schizoid psychosis, so I think the child is directly affected with or without the input of others. Adults, on the other hand, well, I think you're right about that. Nothing like a like some of that ole time Stockholm syndrome touched off by a little hysteria to send a dreamer into a nightmare. I know it is a ghastly overgeneralization, but it seems a big problem in the West, that many of the students of spiritual leaders are vulnerable for whatever reason in the first place--the most common vulnerability being narcissistic personality issues. Those folks yearn for attention, and well, the rest is just kind of tragic, in an obscure way, where the hubris is really bound up with the hollow self. The resulting relationship to the teacher is really weird. I know of one woman who was studying under a Mahayanna nun who beat her regularly. When she tried to consult others about the beatings she met with the same attitude of it being bad juju to tell stories about the teacher out of class. She eventually got connected to a lawyer and the whole lineage had to pay a tidy sum of US dollars for the actions and the cover-up. Don't know what they do about such things now, but I doubt much has changed. It's an attitude built into the religion, and that's a part of what cured me of religion.<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Paul Mackin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mackin.paul@verizon.net">mackin.paul@verizon.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div>On 2/13/2013 11:31 AM, Ian Livingston
wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite">Paul M says: Sex is such an enormously big deal in the
West--and seems to get bigger the more it is used to sell
products. Zen comes in >from the East and sort of upsets the
applecart as it were. Does anyone else wonder about all of this?
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<div>Big in the West? India and China alone account nearly 1/3 of
the human population currently living on Earth. India being the
birthplace of Buddhism, and China the birthplace of Chan which
became Zen upon its walkabout to Japan. Seems to me they take
sex pretty seriously. The Japanese have some pretty wacky sex
trips going on. </div>
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<div>Sex is big in the West because anti-sex is big in the West.
The Puritans put the hex on sex with their biblical
insecurities, and the Catholics--well, as Zappa noted, Catholics
are notoriously horny, what can you say? I rather think it has
more to do with when and where people develop sufficient
emotional intelligence to differentiate between the need for a
good bowel movement or a better diet and the desire to ejaculate
that determines their susceptibility to sexual messages or
temptations. You can be a spiritual leader and still have little
emotional intelligence. Many Buddhist sangha, like their
Catholic counterparts, live apart from the other sex and the
cesspool of modern media from youth, before they have a chance
to develop any understanding of sex. They are naive and horny
and they have few defenses against their own impulses other than
prayer and masturbation. One must know the appetites before they
can control them. And then there's the latin gift of machismo,
according to which conviction it is better to have several
families with a number of different women than to suffer the
unmanly humiliation of sexual deprivation because of
inconvenient offspring.<br>
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Good answer.<br>
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Next question: What is to be done? (in a non regulatory.
anarchistic manner)<br>
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Second question: Is the enormous damage done to children when
subjected to sexual activity (testified to by psychologists who
treat them) inherent in the the vulnerabilities in the immature
human animal, or is it due in some significant part at least to the
attitudes of adults? I know I'm treading on dangerous ground
here. <br>
<br>
Not to draw any kind of direct comparison, but I was struck by the
experiences of the women who were touched or asked for sexual favors
by their beloved zen teacher. Much of the woe came after they
reported the unwanted contacts to others. It turned out to be more
about the disrespect shown the master than about violation of the
student. <br>
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P<br>
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<div> (testified to by the psychologists who treat them
<div class="im">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 7:21 AM, Paul
Mackin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mackin.paul@verizon.net">mackin.paul@verizon.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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<div>On 2/13/2013 8:03 AM, Monte Davis wrote:<br>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">Not
that the Times had contributed anything to the
buildup of Joshu Sasaki: </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/us/09zen.html">http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/us/09zen.html</a></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">Several
Mahayana teachers have been important to me over
the years, but there’s one lama I would never
trust alone in a room with eclairs or cannoli.</span></div>
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P<br>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">
<a href="mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org">owner-pynchon-l@waste.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org">mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Keith Davis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 12, 2013 8:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Morris<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Markekohut; <a href="mailto:malignd@aol.com">malignd@aol.com</a>;
<a href="mailto:pynchon-l@waste.org">pynchon-l@waste.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: (np) New Pope?</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">How
about this?<br>
<a target="_blank" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/world/asia/zen-buddhists-roiled-by-accusations-against-teacher.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130212">http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/world/asia/zen-buddhists-roiled-by-accusations-against-teacher.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130212</a></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 8:45
PM, David Morris <<a href="mailto:fqmorris@gmail.com">fqmorris@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/opinion/the-pope-could-still-right-the-wrongs.html?ref=opinion">http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/opinion/the-pope-could-still-right-the-wrongs.html?ref=opinion</a></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
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<div class="MsoNormal">Still, Benedict has one
last chance to right some of the wrongs of
the recent past by forcing out Cardinal <a target="_blank" href="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/angelo_sodano/index.html?inline=nyt-per" title="More articles about Angelo Sodano.">Angelo Sodano</a>, the
dean of the College of Cardinals and the man
who, more than any other, embodies the
misuse of power that has corrupted the
church hierarchy.</div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
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<div class="MsoNormal">[...]</div>
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<div style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in">But
Cardinal Sodano ranks with the Los Angeles
Cardinal Roger Mahony as an egregious
practitioner of the cover up. As John Paul
II’s secretary of state, he pressured
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the future Pope
Benedict, in two notorious cases.</div>
<div style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in;text-align:-webkit-auto">In
1995, Cardinal Hans Hermann Groër resigned
as archbishop of Vienna, trailed by
accusations, soon proven, that he had abused
young men. Cardinal Ratzinger wanted the
pope to speak out; Cardinal Sodano overruled
him.</div>
<div style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in;text-align:-webkit-auto">Cardinal
Sodano also pressured Cardinal Ratzinger to
abort a case filed in 1998 by several men
accusing the Rev. Marcial Maciel Degollado,
founder of the Legionaries of Christ, of
abusing them as seminarians. Cardinal Sodano
was a longtime beneficiary of money and
favors from Father Maciel. Priests who left
the order told me he received at least
$15,000 in cash.</div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:">He was
personally involved in
protecting pedophiles. I hope
he rots.</span></div>
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-- <br>
<a target="_blank" href="http://www.innergroovemusic.com">www.innergroovemusic.com</a> </div>
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