<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">I think a more apt comparison would be Mervyn Peake's late Titus Alone compared to Titus Groan and Gormenghast.<br>Rich<div><br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> rich <richard.romeo@gmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> "“pynchon-l@waste.org“" <pynchon-l@waste.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, October 8, 2013 4:23 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: BE as P's attempt at Greek New Comedy<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div
id="yiv7211750436"><div><div dir="ltr">BE reads like it was written by late stage Stephen King<br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv7211750436gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv7211750436yqt1731209724" id="yiv7211750436yqtfd15444"><div class="yiv7211750436gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Markekohut <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:markekohut@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:markekohut@yahoo.com">markekohut@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none">
<blockquote class="yiv7211750436gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Like.<br clear="none">
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Sent from my iPad<br clear="none">
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On Oct 8, 2013, at 8:07 AM, Heikki Raudaskoski <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:hraudask@sun3.oulu.fi" target="_blank" href="mailto:hraudask@sun3.oulu.fi">hraudask@sun3.oulu.fi</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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> 383 pages in, I have the growing feeling that a work by Pynchon finally<br clear="none">
> meets the totalizing "requirements" Jameson set for postmodernism<br clear="none">
> decades ago:<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> - the waning of affect<br clear="none">
> - blank and lukewarm pastiching<br clear="none">
> - the abolition of critical distance<br clear="none">
> - the all-pervasiveness of late capitalism with no space for opposition<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Heikki<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> On Mon, 7 Oct 2013, Fiona Shnapple wrote:<br clear="none">
>> but P has Jameson out again here.<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> On Monday, October 7, 2013, John Bailey wrote:<br clear="none">
>>> I think this is the first time P has used the term late capitalism. I<br clear="none">
>>> haven't heard it outside the classroom myself, which made it stand<br clear="none">
>>> out.<br clear="none">
>>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Fiona Shnapple <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fionashnapple@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:fionashnapple@gmail.com">fionashnapple@gmail.com</a><javascript:;>><br clear="none">
>>> wrote:<br clear="none">
>>>> Another question: did Pynchon use the term late-capitalism in IV or in<br clear="none">
>>> prior<br clear="none">
>>>> novels? Been thinking about what Robin said about the Left Content in<br clear="none">
>>> this<br clear="none">
>>>> novel. I happened to be quite fond of a lady who may win the Nobel for<br clear="none">
>>>> prosecuting a certain individual who is guilty of genocide with products<br clear="none">
>>>> made in the USA. How's that for a female heroine fucking a fascist?<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> There is so much in the narrative drift of this book that point to such<br clear="none">
>>>> people, both the sinister and evil bastards who murder and waste life,<br clear="none">
>>> and<br clear="none">
>>>> those who fight them, protect the oppressed, resist the greeeed, the<br clear="none">
>>>> guzzling SUVs.<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> So GTA, like so many Video Games is the topic of study in classes where<br clear="none">
>>>> Jameson is read.<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> I don't think this is Game Over. That's not how I read it.<br clear="none">
>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 7:12 PM, John Bailey <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sundayjb@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:sundayjb@gmail.com">sundayjb@gmail.com</a><javascript:;>><br clear="none">
>>> wrote:<br clear="none">
>>>>><br clear="none">
>>>>> You know what these things mean FS.<br clear="none">
>>>>><br clear="none">
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Fiona Shnapple <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fionashnapple@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:fionashnapple@gmail.com">fionashnapple@gmail.com</a><javascript:;><br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>>> wrote:<br clear="none">
>>>>>> John, I'd like to respond, but you lost me, so, if you don't mind,<br clear="none">
>>> some<br clear="none">
>>>>>> basic questions:<br clear="none">
>>>>>><br clear="none">
>>>>>> What is the old Greek comedy? What is the new Greek comedy?<br clear="none">
>>>>>> What is a Coover take?<br clear="none">
>>>>>> What is close third person? I looked this last one up and was not<br clear="none">
>>>>>> convinced<br clear="none">
>>>>>> that the definition provided is what you have in mind.<br clear="none">
>>>>>><br clear="none">
>>>>>><br clear="none">
>>>>>> On Monday, October 7, 2013, John Bailey wrote:<br clear="none">
>>>>>>><br clear="none">
>>>>>>> I'm increasingly wondering if the new novel isn't Pynchon's conscious<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> attempt to write a New Comedy, in contrast to the Old Comedy that<br clear="none">
>>> most<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> of his work can be aligned with. Or, if we're going to get more<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> detailed, with the Menippean Satire that some have convincingly<br clear="none">
>>> argued<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> is his forte. But I'm sticking with the Old/New divide of the Greeks<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> for the moment.<br clear="none">
>>>>>>><br clear="none">
>>>>>>> It would perhaps explain why this one jars so much for so many. It's<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> sitcom, not systems analysis, and when it gives us types (Jewish<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> American, African American, Italian American) it doesn't do so in the<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> obviously ironic way his earlier works did. It doesn't give us the<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> linguistic miracles that offer a way out of the existential morass in<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> the manner we're used to P providing. It tries to offer characters<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> we're supposed to care for, which is antithetical to Old Comedy, even<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> if that mode is a more compassionate one on a structural level. BE<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> leaves us with mere people, individuals, not even a hint of the<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> preterite, which is interesting and a problem.<br clear="none">
>>>>>>><br clear="none">
>>>>>>> A Coover take on 2001-02 would look more like what we could have<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> expected from Bleeding Edge.<br clear="none">
>>>>>>><br clear="none">
>>>>>>> Why, in both IV and BE, has Pynchon returned to close third person<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> narration (with at least one exception in BE that I've noticed?) It's<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> not What He Does. Not even in Vineland. He toyed with it in COL49 but<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> then declared it a minor work. Why go back there?<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> -<br clear="none">
>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l">http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l</a><br clear="none">
> -<br clear="none">
> Pynchon-l / <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l">http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l</a><br clear="none">
</div></div>-<br clear="none">
Pynchon-l / <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l">http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l</a><br clear="none">
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