<div dir="ltr"><div>but is Kubrick's version really Kubrick's version?<br></div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 10:30 PM, Rich Clavey <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:antizoyd@yahoo.com" target="_blank">antizoyd@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif"><div><span>As long as it relates to Kubrick's version rather than King's.</span></div>
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</div><font face="Arial"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">From:</span></b> rich <<a href="mailto:richard.romeo@gmail.com" target="_blank">richard.romeo@gmail.com</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">To:</span></b> John Bailey <<a href="mailto:sundayjb@gmail.com" target="_blank">sundayjb@gmail.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Cc:</span></b> Robin Landseadel <<a href="mailto:robinlandseadel@comcast.net" target="_blank">robinlandseadel@comcast.net</a>>; Pynchon List <<a href="mailto:pynchon-l@waste.org" target="_blank">pynchon-l@waste.org</a>> <br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, October 8, 2013 7:08 PM<div class="im"><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: This week in pointless trivia.<br></div></font></div><div><div class="h5">
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<div dir="ltr">can we discuss room 237 instead? <br></div>
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<div>On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:09 PM, John Bailey <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sundayjb@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">sundayjb@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex">Yes to this. I don't think Pynchon has ever, ever posited sex as some<br>sort of free-love antidote to Power and Control and Death-Systems.<br>
He's not that kind of 60s/70s writer. I think about Bakhtin's<br>carnivalesque in this regard - what seems to be a moment of liberation<br>from social structures is really a release valve built into those<br>structures themselves, not threatening to them, and in fact<br>
reinforcing the 'normal' state from which the zaniness appears to<br>depart. I doubt Pynchon wants to do that.<br>
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<div><br>On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Robin Landseadel<br><<a href="mailto:robinlandseadel@comcast.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">robinlandseadel@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br>> My TV consumption was such that I gleefully watched Friends, Seinfeld, & Sex<br>
> and the City. My memories of Manhattan proper are all during the Dot-Com<br>> Boom, or at least the Clinton Economic Expansion. Prior to my second<br>> marriage, Shira had me along for work/family visits in NYC, mid-ninties. We<br>
> spent a lot of time with her Aunt who lived in the Upper West Side. I love<br>> Zabar's, the subways, the general tummel, the old, soulful buildings, the<br>> new soulless ones. I've heard Shira's left-leaning Jewish family hash over<br>
> stuff hashed over in BE, stereotypically or not. And let it noted by one and<br>> all that Shira does a killer job at vocally
impersonating Ethel Merman, full<br>> volume. This all conflates in my mind while reading Bleeding Edge.<br>><br>> My experience with Pynchon's portrayals of sex is that they all rather<br>> repulsive on multiple levels. I point to page 666 of Against the Day as an<br>
> exemplar. I mean—were you turned on by the hairspray and the strip Boticelli<br>> and Oedipa giving up her all to "Metzger"/Butcher? Didn't think so. I rather<br>> doubt the author gets turned on by these scenes, I always assume that they,<br>
> like his puns, usually are pointing to some other elephant in the room. My<br>> sense with Maxine is that she has more or less the same sense of morality<br>> around sex as Elaine from Seinfeld. Much as another P-Lister sees the Young<br>
> Teri Garr as Oedipa Maas, I see Julia Louis-Dreyfus as Maxine Turnow.<br>><br>><br>> On Oct 8, 2013, at 4:28 PM, John Bailey wrote:<br>><br>>> I'm going to
lower to tone of conversation somewhat by pointing out<br>>> that one of Windust's most obvious referents is the male love object<br>>> in Sex and the City, Mr Big. Not a fan of the show but of the episodes<br>
>> I ended up watching over the years, what struck me is how alien its<br>>> central relationship seemed to me - a woman holding a torch for this<br>>> ultra-powerful patriarch whose appeal seemed to be in his emotional<br>
>> unavailability. I've known many women who see this dysfunctional<br>>> dynamic (in the show) as perfectly normal.<br>>><br>>> I'm certainly not going to advocate watching the show in order to<br>
>> engage with BE more closely (god knows I'm not going to) but I have<br>>> zero doubt that it is a significant intertext in this novel about<br>>> women in New York at the turn of the century. Maxi's conversations<br>
>> with her female pals and her
relationship with Windust are in part<br>>> Pynchon's rejoinder to this ridiculously popular portrait of his town,<br>>> and Windust is just an exaggeration of the plutocratic male ideal it<br>>> presents.<br>
><br>><br>> -<br>> Pynchon-l / <a href="http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l</a><br>-<br>Pynchon-l / <a href="http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l</a><br>
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