<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">I am about a third of the way through Kushner's The Flamethrowers, set in the mid-70's and am getting that same feeling. I think a lot has to do with the authors attempting to recreate the times.<br>Rich<div><br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Bekah <bekah0176@sbcglobal.net><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Jamie Anderson <jamiek.anderson@gmail.com> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> pynchon -l <pynchon-l@waste.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, October 10, 2013 12:24 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: Close Third & Why Channeling his inner Jewish Mother Works so well<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br>And I agree - I think P's "feminism" is not apparent in V., the stories of Slow Learner, GR, or IV. But I have a strong sense of it in CoL49, Vineland, M&D and AtD. IV might well have had more to do with the times than with Pynchon - probably true of SL and GR, too. T.C. Boyle showed the attitude pretty well in Drop City (pub. 2003 but set in the early 1970s) - Boyle is generally sympathetic toward feminism. <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Bekah <br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">On Oct 10, 2013, at 11:56 AM, Jamie Anderson <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jamiek.anderson@gmail.com" href="mailto:jamiek.anderson@gmail.com">jamiek.anderson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br
clear="none">> Completely agree with you, Fiona. Maxine and Frenesi are like many of TRP's women characters: the same as men in terms of complexity. I've always felt Pynchon, particularly later Pynchon, but also in CL49, is a feminist in that he creates women characters the same way that he creates men characters: they have faults, they have flaws, they make good and bad decisions, but they are overall human. <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 11:48 PM, Fiona Shnapple <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fionashnapple@gmail.com" href="mailto:fionashnapple@gmail.com">fionashnapple@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">> There are several reasons why I love Maxine.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> 1. she is appropriate, given the context<br clear="none">> 2. she is a reliable guide to the world(s) of the novel<br clear="none">> 3. she
is a reliable voice for the moral values of the world outside<br clear="none">> the book. In other words, P uses her, in lots of ways, to comment on<br clear="none">> the world<br clear="none">> 4. she provides unity and coherence<br clear="none">> 5. his choice of a female serves his major themes, though Maxine, like<br clear="none">> Frenesi, may be misread, and thus misjudged by readers who fail to<br clear="none">> understand how she functions as a symbol<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> a. if we turn back to Frenesi, as readers here have, we see that her<br clear="none">> attraction to the uniform, to the police, to Brock, to fascists has<br clear="none">> been interpreted as a fault in the author--some bias owed to his age<br clear="none">> or generation or whatever<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> b. is P's trope, daughter of the Left (not Plath whose Daddy is a<br clear="none">>
fascist, recall Moody and DL) loves a fascist worn out or confusing?<br clear="none">> Not really<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> c. because it is not about daughters, exactly, but technology, and<br clear="none">> specifically, image technics.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> d. Frenesi wants to expose, with light and camera, to drag the truth,<br clear="none">> naked before the world; she wants to force it out, her camera, a gun,<br clear="none">> not a penis for love making, but a penis to rape, to force, with<br clear="none">> violence, the truth out of a victim. Yes, even a fascist, a sadistic<br clear="none">> fascist, can be tortured. But the truth, you GTAV fans know, is not<br clear="none">> had with torture.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> e. what drives Frenesi to do this? This is nothing about females,<br clear="none">> though DL, the Sisterhood, the whole sick film crew, think,
it does.<br clear="none">> Frenesi's reading, that is, misreading, of men and how they use the<br clear="none">> penis/gun, is not penis envy, or any anti-feminist bias in the author,<br clear="none">> but part of complex trope that P has been using, and developing; it<br clear="none">> has to do with technology and images---film, TV, rich media, lights,<br clear="none">> camera, hollywood<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> f. and, of course, it's about work in consumer to late capitalism<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> g. so, Frenesi is made a slave, a medium of exchange<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> 6. so, those offended by Maxine, by Pynchon's apparent bias against<br clear="none">> New York's Jewish community, and/or Females, are simply misreading<br clear="none">> and finding fault with the author.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> I. P has been interested in Jewish American
fiction, and thus the<br clear="none">> Jewish character (see his SL Introduction), from his youth<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> a. as a non-Jew living in the Upper West Side of NYC, his admiration<br clear="none">> for and fiendship with Jewish people is nothing uncommon or something<br clear="none">> we should doubt or suspect<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> b. that he channels his inner Jewish mother is appropriate and<br clear="none">> complimentary, not anything to be embarrassed for<br clear="none">> -<br clear="none">> Pynchon-l / <a shape="rect" href="http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l" target="_blank">http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l</a><div class="yqt2393056700" id="yqtfd55822"><br clear="none">> <br clear="none"><br clear="none">-<br clear="none">Pynchon-l / <a shape="rect" href="http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l"
target="_blank">http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l</a></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></body></html>