<div dir="ltr"><div>That did help a lot. Thank you both.<br><br></div>Mike<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 10:29 PM, David Morris <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:fqmorris@gmail.com" target="_blank">fqmorris@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">And the impossible is Is why we seek to help Mike.<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br><br>On Saturday, September 5, 2015, David Morris <<a href="mailto:fqmorris@gmail.com" target="_blank">fqmorris@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Yes. But the impossible is always the challenge.<br><br>On Saturday, September 5, 2015, Dave Monroe <<a>against.the.dave@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Quitters never win.<br>
<br>
On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 9:19 PM, David Morris <<a>fqmorris@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Understanding anything is impossible.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Saturday, September 5, 2015, Dave Monroe <<a>against.the.dave@gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Des tours de Babel<br>
>><br>
>> "What the multiplicity of idioms comes to limit is not only a 'true'<br>
>> translation, a transparent and adequate interexpression, it is also a<br>
>> structural order, a coherence of construct...."<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://users.clas.ufl.edu/burt/deconstructionandnewmediatheory/destourdebabel.pdf" target="_blank">http://users.clas.ufl.edu/burt/deconstructionandnewmediatheory/destourdebabel.pdf</a><br>
>><br>
>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Dave Monroe <<a>against.the.dave@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>> > The Task of the Translator<br>
>> ><br>
>> > "... any translation that intends to perform a transmitting function<br>
>> > cannot transmit anything but communica- tion-hence, something<br>
>> > inessential. This is the hallmark of bad translations. But do we not<br>
>> > generally regard that which lies beyond communication in a literary<br>
>> > work-and even a poor translator will admit that this is its essential<br>
>> > substance-as the unfathomable, the mysterious, the 'poetic'? And is<br>
>> > this not something that a translator can reproduce only if he is<br>
>> > also--a poet? Such, actually, is the cause of another characteristic<br>
>> > of inferior translation, which consequently we may define as the<br>
>> > inaccurate transmission of an inessential content. Whenever a<br>
>> > translation undertakes to serve the reader, it demonstrates this.<br>
>> > However, if it were intended for the reader, the same would have to<br>
>> > apply to the original. If the original does not exist for the reader's<br>
>> > sake, how could the translation be understood on the basis of this<br>
>> > premise?<br>
>> >Â Â "Translation is a form. To comprehend it as a form, one must go<br>
>> > back to the original, for the laws governing the translation lie<br>
>> > within the original, contained in the issue of its<br>
>> > translatability...."<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > <a href="http://users.clas.ufl.edu/burt/deconstructionandnewmediatheory/walterbenjamintasktranslator.pdf" target="_blank">http://users.clas.ufl.edu/burt/deconstructionandnewmediatheory/walterbenjamintasktranslator.pdf</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 9:01 PM, David Morris <<a>fqmorris@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >> Yes, but that threshold is too high for normal world translators. Real<br>
>> >> translation of poetry is impossible. The reader must become the learned<br>
>> >> translator, eventually.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On Saturday, September 5, 2015, Dave Monroe<br>
>> >> <<a>against.the.dave@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >> wrote:<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> ... too many resonances to catch to translate "literally" (see, e.g.,<br>
>> >>> my earlier notes on hysteron proteron in GR). You're not just<br>
>> >>> translating words, you're translating relationships ...<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 8:33 PM, David Morris <<a>fqmorris@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >>> wrote:<br>
>> >>> > I think Mike's translation challenge with Pynchon is in NOT<br>
>> >>> > interpreting<br>
>> >>> > the<br>
>> >>> > text. Be literal, because poetry should be translated prior to<br>
>> >>> > interpretation.<br>
>> >>> ><br>
>> >>> > David Morris<br>
>> >>> ><br>
>> >>> > On Saturday, September 5, 2015, David Morris <<a>fqmorris@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >>> > wrote:<br>
>> >>> >><br>
>> >>> >> Getting specific, patches flashing up on the visible mountainsides<br>
>> >>> >> resembles a divisional patch. That association is the point. But<br>
>> >>> >> it<br>
>> >>> >> shouldn't be explicit in translation. Indeed it can't be<br>
>> >>> >> translated.<br>
>> >>> >><br>
>> >>> >> David Morris<br>
>> >>> >><br>
>> >>> >> On Saturday, September 5, 2015, David Morris <<a>fqmorris@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >>> >> wrote:<br>
>> >>> >>><br>
>> >>> >>> This passage is trying to relate a drug induced experience, and<br>
>> >>> >>> thus<br>
>> >>> >>> is<br>
>> >>> >>> impossible to translate into a normal experience, except by<br>
>> >>> >>> extreme<br>
>> >>> >>> analogies, which is what Pynchon so often does. So throw out<br>
>> >>> >>> normal<br>
>> >>> >>> analogies.<br>
>> >>> >>><br>
>> >>> >>> In extreme drug-induced experience, "patches" of perception will<br>
>> >>> >>> flash<br>
>> >>> >>> brightly. Messages from the paranoid beyond, which might, or might<br>
>> >>> >>> not, be<br>
>> >>> >>> crucial to survival. And which you might forget having received in<br>
>> >>> >>> the<br>
>> >>> >>> next<br>
>> >>> >>> second.<br>
>> >>> >>><br>
>> >>> >>> David Morris<br>
>> >>> >>><br>
>> >>> >>> On Saturday, September 5, 2015, Mike Jing<br>
>> >>> >>> <<a>gravitys.rainbow.cn@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >>> >>> wrote:<br>
>> >>> >>>><br>
>> >>> >>>> V640.30-641.2Â Â On the mountainsides, patches will flash up now<br>
>> >>> >>>> and<br>
>> >>> >>>> then, bright as dittany in July at the Zippo’s ceremonial touch.<br>
>> >>> >>>> Pfc.<br>
>> >>> >>>> Eddie<br>
>> >>> >>>> Pensiero, a replacement here in the 89th Division, also an<br>
>> >>> >>>> amphetamine<br>
>> >>> >>>> enthusiast, sits huddling nearly on top of the fire, shivering<br>
>> >>> >>>> and<br>
>> >>> >>>> watching<br>
>> >>> >>>> the divisional patch on his arm, which ordinarily resembles a<br>
>> >>> >>>> cluster<br>
>> >>> >>>> of<br>
>> >>> >>>> rocketnoses seen out of a dilating asshole, all in black and<br>
>> >>> >>>> olive-drab, but<br>
>> >>> >>>> which now looks like something even stranger than that, which<br>
>> >>> >>>> Eddie<br>
>> >>> >>>> will<br>
>> >>> >>>> think of in a minute.<br>
>> >>> >>>><br>
>> >>> >>>> Are these patches of vegetation, or something else entirely?<br>
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