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And urban space is not the least theme of Pynchon's two latest
novels, <br>
Inherent Vice and Bleeding Edge!<br>
<br>
On 09.05.2016 03:32, Mark Kohut wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:0353B19E-0FCD-428D-8536-7D2A03512389@gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div>even I, Â who can walk into walls, believe physical
environments have to matter a lot or---who are we? The space to
be human in, not the least theme of AGAINST THE DAY, I suggest.
And TRP and cities, what say? <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad</div>
<div><br>
On May 8, 2016, at 3:42 PM, David Morris <<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:fqmorris@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fqmorris@gmail.com">fqmorris@gmail.com</a></a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>As a designer I obviously don't like #3. I firmly believe
that the physical environment influences social interaction,
which is central to an urban ecology. Obviously it is not the
only, nor even predominant factor.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Concentrated poverty (ghettos)Â existed in neighborhoods
that were not catostrophic failures before modernist
anti-urban neighborhoods became war zones. Ghettos
(old-style)Â Â were usually staging grounds for the newest
wave of immagrents on their way up and out.  So poverty
doesn't necessarily create war zones. Thus I posit that
concentrated poverty plus inhuman design environment seems a
likely culprit to urban war zones.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>David Morris</div>
<div>
<div><br>
On Sunday, May 8, 2016, David Morris <<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:fqmorris@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fqmorris@gmail.com">fqmorris@gmail.com</a></a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I pick #2, and that's what I was trying
to say earlier with this: "<span
style="font-size:12.8px">Design does matter, as does
concentrated poverty. Money might trump (is that
word still usable?) poor design. But design can help
mitigate the effects of poverty."</span>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">I would guess that
ST/PCV isn't a place of concentrated
multi-generational poverty.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">David Morris</span></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 5:55
AM, Monte Davis <span dir="ltr"><<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:montedavis49@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:montedavis49@gmail.com">montedavis49@gmail.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small">I don't take anything
said as personal attack or criticism. I'm
simply telling you that in my own experience,
and in what I know of that the almost 70 years
that ST/PCV has existed, there has been</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small">NO deterioration or
trashing of "indefensible" public spaces
(neither halls, elevators and lobbies nor
lawns, walkways and playgrounds between
buildings)... and a consistently very low
crime rate. In 1960, when I was turning 11, I
and younger children were going unescorted
between apartments and playgrounds, roller
skating and scootering on the (mostly
vehicle-free) interior drives -- as children
were in Sept. 2015, the last time I was
there. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small">NO shortage of
multiple, varied forms of social solidarity
and engagement. There are no restaurants,
bars, churches, or athletic fields within
ST/PCV. But its population strengthens (in
many cases is the primary support of) scores
of them in the adjacent blocks. Within the
apartments were more rather than fewer poker
nights, book clubs, crafts groups, small
potluck suppers etc, per capita than the
small-town and suburban communities I've lived
in.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small">Possibilities (none
exclusive):</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small">(1) ST/PCV is a
freakish anomaly</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small">(2)
demography/socioeconomics and property
management entirely compensate for the
destructive effects of modernist design<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small">(3) those destructive
effects are much exaggerated. Maybe architects
and community planners of *all* persuasions --
Jacobites and New Urbanists as well as their
Modernist predecessors -- ascribe much too
much influence to their own work.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small"><br>
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small"><br>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 8, 2016
at 12:16 AM, Keith Davis <span dir="ltr"><<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:kbob42@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kbob42@gmail.com">kbob42@gmail.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Monte,</div>
<div>I'm not sure I understand your
response either. I certainly didn't
intend my comments to be taken as a
personal attack or criticism.</div>
<div><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.innergroovemusic.com"
target="_blank">Www.innergroovemusic.com</a></div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
On May 7, 2016, at 11:53 PM,
David Morris <<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:fqmorris@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fqmorris@gmail.com">fqmorris@gmail.com</a></a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>What?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Have you been drinking?
Or what?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>David Morris</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Sat, May 7, 2016 at 5:33
PM, Monte Davis <span
dir="ltr"><<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:montedavis49@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:montedavis49@gmail.com">montedavis49@gmail.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small">I assure you I will give due weight to these
insights, and due
weight to 25 years
of my family's (and
25,000 neighbors')
experience.</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div
class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">On
Sat, May 7, 2016
at 2:45 PM,
David Morris <span
dir="ltr"><<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fqmorris@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fqmorris@gmail.com">fqmorris@gmail.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0
0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Also
I forgot to
mention
another very
important
aspect of
old-urbanism's
semi-public
spaces where
"owners" of
the street
could be its
defenders:
 Those stoops,
porches and
fire escapes
naturally
resulted in
residents
interacting
with their
neighbors,
forming
community
bonds, knowing
who on the
street lived
in their
neighborhood,
and who
didn't.Â
Streets thus
had many
"mayors" wise
to normal
street
patterns, and
they defended
their
neighbors as
well as their
streets.<span><font
color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>David
Morris<br>
<div><br>
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