More from News, 1

[John M. Krafft]

From:	MIAVX2::JMKRAFFT     "John M. Krafft" 26-FEB-1992 22:43:34.83
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CC:	JMKRAFFT    
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X-News: miavx2 alt.cyberpunk:466
From: burns at latcs1.lat.oz.au (Jonathan Burns)
Subject:<None>
Date: 23 Feb 92 13:52:04 GMT
Message-ID:<1992Feb23.135204.16457 at latcs1.lat.oz.au>

Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Is Thomas Pynchon Gibson's Secret Love-Child?
In artcicle <1992Feb20.212936.18095 at news.lrz-muenchen.de>
 TRINGHAM at usmv01.usm.uni-muenchen.de (Tringham, Neal) writes:

(Burns:)
>> I also thought it was uncannily like Ken Kesey.

(Tringham:)
> Like Kesey? As in the novels, or the lifestyle? (I'm fascinated. Other than
> that both Pynchon and Kesey are sort of sixties survivors, I really can't
> see much in common). 

"Sixties survivors" says it all; but in particular the figure of the
elder crazy, not shaking the world, a bit rueful, but not apologizing
either. You might like Kesey's essay collection, "Demon Box".

It's incumbent on the elder crazy to denounce the babbitry (and discern
the lunacy) of the prosperous eighties; also to go quixotic over one
more bright glimmer. See also  Glorianna O'Toole in Spinrad's
_Little Heroes_.


>> > Does this mean that 
>> > 1) There _really was_ an eighties zeitgeist, and Gibson and Pynchon both
>> > caught it? (along with, perhaps, Ridley Scott, since I think Gibson
>> > claims never to have seen _Blade Runner_ before writing the first
>> > Sprawl stories, even though it predates them)
>> 
>> Well yeah, but I date it back to Tom Wolfe, Hunter S. Thompson, and
>> Stanley Kubrik. Gonzo, man.

> I find this interesting as well... I could never see that Tom Wolfe and Hunter
> Thompson really had all that much in common, other than having come along
> at much the same time with `new ways to do journalism'. Certainly _Fear and
> Loathing in Las Vegas_ and _The Bonfire of the Vanities_ strike me as coming
> not so much from different genres as from different centuries... and even
> _The Kandy-Koloured Tangerine Flake Streamline Baby_ (almost certainly not the
> right title:-)) never seemed to me to be really enthusiastically fucked-up 
> (and enthusiastic about being fucked up) in the way that lots of Thompson's 
> best stuff is. I can see a certain relationship between Thompson and 
> Gibson/Pynchon, tho. 

The common thing among Thompson, Wolfe and the Beats was the vitality
of subcultures, especially neglected ones. Culture flowers where it's
least expected, is the message. (Consider the discovery of Rastas in
the '70s) But this is more so for the early Wolfe than the later, who
became a shark (a valuable one) for the phoneyness of the Politically Correct.

(Right title by the way, except maybe for the u in Koloured.)

I remember (long time) _The Pump-house Gang_, _The KKTFSB_ and _The
Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test_ as being quite enthusiastic about being
fucked up - but NOBODY goes as far as Thompson.

The other thing, though, is the enjoyment of the rowdy irreverent use
of gadgets. I think it was Gibson who said, CP is getting into bed
with technology; and that's as true of Wolfe's portrait of Big Daddy
Roth at the airbrush (not to mention Chuck Yeager) as it is of
Thompson and his pharmaceuticals.

I can't think of many recent SF characters who quite capture the
LOOK what you can do with this shit feeling.

 
>> He was pretty gentle on the sixties, you must admit. Us old farts
>> appreciate that, and it fucks up our reviews.

> Yeah, he made it sound _so good_ I almost wished I'd been born before they 
> ended... (all right, I exaggerate. But only slightly). 

> Neal Tringham

Well, I can usually raise a cheer with the following among the 20-year-olds
down at the Rubber Soul of a Friday night...

Are there kids still sleeping in the street?
Can you still get dope?
Is the planet still in danger?
WHAT'S ANY DIFFERENT?

You have to give something back:-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jonathan Burns        |
burns at latcs1.lat.oz.au| AI is born free, yet everywhere is found in loops.
Computer Science Dept |          
La Trobe University   |
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