GRGR(6) Discussion Opener

[Joe Varo]

On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Paul Mackin wrote:

> [snip]
>
> Seems like there is an irresistable impulse to set up binary
> opposition between Pointsman and Mexico. Is there any way to 
> undermine this? Maybe take the literal "meaning" out of it.
> 
> Pointsman as behaviorist and animal experimenter (as well
> as his general approach to things) makes him a perfect standin
> for unfreedom.  Pretty intrusive guy.
> 
> But isn't Mexico's probabalistic approach (and the importance it takes
> on in modern physics} totally problematic as a standin for freedom? 
> 
> Might it not well be seen as gross overemphasis on the MICRO level? The
> thing of it is, attempts to control destiny and people are invariable
> made at the MACRO level. Reasonable probablities of success are all that
> is ever required.. 

So, if I understand you correctly, only "in theory" is Pointsman the
stand-in for unfreedom and Mexico for freedom, whereas "in pratice"
Mexico's method is more likely to result in the control which Pointsman so
desires.  Correct?

Interesting point, man.  On the MICRO level of quantum mechanics, Mexico's
statistics are what are used to show that nothing is determined, that,
theoreticly, *anything* could possibly happen, some simply more probable
than others.  Yet at the MACRO level, statistics methods (like the MMPI?)
are used to control people, to predict likely outcomes.

I can see that, but I don't see how you could perform the same reversal on
Pointsman.  I think that his binarism/behaviourism is equally controlling
at either the MACRO or MICRO level.

> [snip]
> 
> But to continue with the distinction between micro and macro levels
> (forgive the binary thinking), Pointsman's preference for one or zero
> outcomes when looked at from the viewpoint of neurology is also a
> strictly MICRO phenomenon. I refer to the all-or-nothing principle of
> neuron (single cell) response. The conditioned reflex (the MACRO event),
> on the other hand, may be GRADUATED as much as Mexico's probablities. 
> 
> [snip]

Okay.  For a given level of stimulus you get a given level of response, so
yes, the level can be graduated, but, if the conditioning is successful,
isn't the level of response to a given stimulus still completely
predictable?

Joe