Educating Librarians

[john wells]

A FLAME,

Which I think should be posted, 
please excuse me for wasting list-members time.

john



Peter Giordano wrote:
> 
> John, I am sending this to you directly rather than to the list - I
> generally do not do this as I try to respect people's privacy 

My impression of you is that you respect very little of other people's
"anything"

> but I thought
> in this case it might be better to email you directly - If it is not your
> practice to accept personal email from people on the list let me know

OK. To formally let you know: I will accept personal email on this list
from anyone and will keep it personal, even if they wish to attack me, 
with ONE EXCEPTION, and that's YOU, whether you sign yourself PETER
GIORDANO OR PETER 13.
 
> You said:
> >NO, I don't have to address my "clever little joke" to anyone in
> >particular for it to work. I got a laugh and so did a few other folks.
> >In fact, I'm laughing now... You're the biggest hoot on this list.
> I say:
> I'm indifferent to your opinions of me 

Oh no, you're not, or you wouldn't be attempting this secretive,
off-line, hissy fit.

> but I would suggest that when people
> are reduced to saying things like " I got a laugh and so did a few other
> folks" they are usually in trouble

I've never been in trouble with a librarian in my life, I pay my fines
for late books.

> - Why do you need to suggest that "other
> folks" agree with you?

I'm not suggesting, I'm stating a fact. They commented privately and I
would not think of posting their comments to satisfy your paranoid
doubts of my veracity. Why are you so goddamned cynical? Don't you
believe ANYTHING on the list? If I didn't know better I'd think you were
a Republican newspaper reporter.

> Are you that insecure?

I'm not so insecure that I need to deal with you privately or off-list,
like you tried to do with this email to me.

> Why do you need to quote
> nameless and faceless people?

They're not nameless and faceless, they told me their names, but did so
privately. Why are you so compulsively suspicious that you always think
people are hiding things from you or are lying to you?  This whole
thing's a minor bit of bullshit and you act like you're being kept out
of the loop on a national security matter. 

>  Why not let the rest of the people on the
> list speak for themselves or do you claim to speak for the list?

JE-SUS! That's IT! I (and perhaps others?) DO WISH YOU'D TAKE YOUR OWN
ADVICE!

>  I noticed
> that Jules had the same tendencies: "I got private email telling me I'm
> right"

WHY, OH WHY do you doubt Jules got private email? YOU just sent this
private email to me. Would you doubt my response if you didn't see it
posted on-list?

> or "The people on the list agree with me"

SOME individuals on this list will be found to agree with virtually any
opinion,
and/or remark on this list. Why is that so hard for you to believe?

> - Waste all the bandwidth
> you want 

LOOK WHO'S TALKING ABOUT WASTING BANDWIDTH, you obsessive-compulsive
emailer you!

> but you really should try to at least make your jokes remotely
> related to facts 

Hate to bust your bubble, librarian, but jokes are not remotely related
to facts. They're related to laughs, if you had a life you'd understand
that instinctively.

>- For example:
> 
> You said:
> >What? You think I'm going to let some anal-retentive dewey-decimal
> >addict explain the need for rigid accuracy in a JOKE?!
> I say:
> I've made plenty of errors and have made comments worthy of being joked
> about so why would you be desperate enough to ridicule the profession of
> librarianship?  What's the point?

To make you wake up -- but that does appear pointless -- I admit. Still,
some of us like to try the impossible.

>  Aren't you smart enough to say something
> funny without resorting to lame cliches?  Also, just like Jules in his
> attack on Sojouner you make the really idiotic mistake of leaping to
> assumptions which are simply not true

Just like you "leap to assumptions" when you doubt the veracity of all
things anyone says that you don't agree with or believe.

> - I have a vague idea of what the
> Dewey Decimal system is all about but what have I ever said that would
> indicate that I'm a "dewey-decimal addict"/

You're just obviously profoundly anal-retentive and will argue endlessly
about
anything, even about "facts" in jokes, for crying out loud.

> When I make comments about Jules it's because I can't tolerate liars and
> cheats

Now, we'll get to facts. HOW DO YOU KNOW Jules is a liar or cheat? I
submit that YOU
are probably lying and are CERTAINLY CHEATING because YOU DO NOT KNOW
for a fact that JULES is lying or cheating. YOU ARE MAKING OUTRAGEOUS
PRESUMPTIONS THAT ARE NOT BASED ON ANYTHING BUT YOUR OWN COMPULSIVE
CYNICISM, YOUR "YADAYADAYDA, WHAT YOU SAY ISN'T TRUE BECAUSE I CAN'T
FIND IT IN MY REFERENCE LIBRARY!" Just because it isn't in the library
doesn't mean it isn't so, you ivory tower recluse. There's a whole world
of experience beyond the walls of your library.

> - I ridicule his ponitifications and perhaps I am insulting - I do
> not ridicule him personally though

OH! Of course you do. Calling him a liar and a cheat isn't ridiculing
him personally?
Look at what YOU wrote above. You must know that it is a hallmark of
mental illness to unintentionally contradict oneself, and then be
completely unaware of it. It's a sign of a separation from reality.
Accept the responsibility for the completely unfounded attacks you've
made on a man you've never met, who has never done you any harm, and go
see a doctor and learn to focus so that your words relate to reality, at
least a little bit.

> (I don't know him personally)

EXACTLY, SO HOW DO YOU KNOW HE's A LIAR OR CHEAT? -- OR ANY OTHER
OUTRAGEOUS SMART-ASSED REMARK YOU MADE AS TO HIS VERACITY, OR
ORIGINALITY? What is the real reason for your
repeated attacks on a man you admit you don't know personally?

> - I
> suggest that if you want make fun of me on the list that you make an effort
> to find something real to insult 

OH, you admit you're not real? Well, you might be pleased to know that I
think you're real, your unfounded attacks on this list are real, and are
really felt by real people.
 
>- That way it would mean something instead
> of just  making you look desperatately mean

Oh, BOO HOO HOO...
If you want to find someone desperately mean, take a look in the
mirror.  You're the most vicious person on this list in my opinion, and
without any reason for it. Now you are only getting what you dish out.
You should be prepared for that, since YOU started it.

Now, I hope you'll take the time to cool off, start to pay attention to
what you say, and then say constructive, positive things on this list
forevermore.

john