Educating Librarians

[R ed Bug]

Please take all this shit off line.

Thanks so much.

Tim Ware

On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, john wells wrote:

> A FLAME,
> 
> Which I think should be posted, 
> please excuse me for wasting list-members time.
> 
> john
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Giordano wrote:
> > 
> > John, I am sending this to you directly rather than to the list - I
> > generally do not do this as I try to respect people's privacy 
> 
> My impression of you is that you respect very little of other people's
> "anything"
> 
> > but I thought
> > in this case it might be better to email you directly - If it is not your
> > practice to accept personal email from people on the list let me know
> 
> OK. To formally let you know: I will accept personal email on this list
> from anyone and will keep it personal, even if they wish to attack me, 
> with ONE EXCEPTION, and that's YOU, whether you sign yourself PETER
> GIORDANO OR PETER 13.
>  
> > You said:
> > >NO, I don't have to address my "clever little joke" to anyone in
> > >particular for it to work. I got a laugh and so did a few other folks.
> > >In fact, I'm laughing now... You're the biggest hoot on this list.
> > I say:
> > I'm indifferent to your opinions of me 
> 
> Oh no, you're not, or you wouldn't be attempting this secretive,
> off-line, hissy fit.
> 
> > but I would suggest that when people
> > are reduced to saying things like " I got a laugh and so did a few other
> > folks" they are usually in trouble
> 
> I've never been in trouble with a librarian in my life, I pay my fines
> for late books.
> 
> > - Why do you need to suggest that "other
> > folks" agree with you?
> 
> I'm not suggesting, I'm stating a fact. They commented privately and I
> would not think of posting their comments to satisfy your paranoid
> doubts of my veracity. Why are you so goddamned cynical? Don't you
> believe ANYTHING on the list? If I didn't know better I'd think you were
> a Republican newspaper reporter.
> 
> > Are you that insecure?
> 
> I'm not so insecure that I need to deal with you privately or off-list,
> like you tried to do with this email to me.
> 
> > Why do you need to quote
> > nameless and faceless people?
> 
> They're not nameless and faceless, they told me their names, but did so
> privately. Why are you so compulsively suspicious that you always think
> people are hiding things from you or are lying to you?  This whole
> thing's a minor bit of bullshit and you act like you're being kept out
> of the loop on a national security matter. 
> 
> >  Why not let the rest of the people on the
> > list speak for themselves or do you claim to speak for the list?
> 
> JE-SUS! That's IT! I (and perhaps others?) DO WISH YOU'D TAKE YOUR OWN
> ADVICE!
> 
> >  I noticed
> > that Jules had the same tendencies: "I got private email telling me I'm
> > right"
> 
> WHY, OH WHY do you doubt Jules got private email? YOU just sent this
> private email to me. Would you doubt my response if you didn't see it
> posted on-list?
> 
> > or "The people on the list agree with me"
> 
> SOME individuals on this list will be found to agree with virtually any
> opinion,
> and/or remark on this list. Why is that so hard for you to believe?
> 
> > - Waste all the bandwidth
> > you want 
> 
> LOOK WHO'S TALKING ABOUT WASTING BANDWIDTH, you obsessive-compulsive
> emailer you!
> 
> > but you really should try to at least make your jokes remotely
> > related to facts 
> 
> Hate to bust your bubble, librarian, but jokes are not remotely related
> to facts. They're related to laughs, if you had a life you'd understand
> that instinctively.
> 
> >- For example:
> > 
> > You said:
> > >What? You think I'm going to let some anal-retentive dewey-decimal
> > >addict explain the need for rigid accuracy in a JOKE?!
> > I say:
> > I've made plenty of errors and have made comments worthy of being joked
> > about so why would you be desperate enough to ridicule the profession of
> > librarianship?  What's the point?
> 
> To make you wake up -- but that does appear pointless -- I admit. Still,
> some of us like to try the impossible.
> 
> >  Aren't you smart enough to say something
> > funny without resorting to lame cliches?  Also, just like Jules in his
> > attack on Sojouner you make the really idiotic mistake of leaping to
> > assumptions which are simply not true
> 
> Just like you "leap to assumptions" when you doubt the veracity of all
> things anyone says that you don't agree with or believe.
> 
> > - I have a vague idea of what the
> > Dewey Decimal system is all about but what have I ever said that would
> > indicate that I'm a "dewey-decimal addict"/
> 
> You're just obviously profoundly anal-retentive and will argue endlessly
> about
> anything, even about "facts" in jokes, for crying out loud.
> 
> > When I make comments about Jules it's because I can't tolerate liars and
> > cheats
> 
> Now, we'll get to facts. HOW DO YOU KNOW Jules is a liar or cheat? I
> submit that YOU
> are probably lying and are CERTAINLY CHEATING because YOU DO NOT KNOW
> for a fact that JULES is lying or cheating. YOU ARE MAKING OUTRAGEOUS
> PRESUMPTIONS THAT ARE NOT BASED ON ANYTHING BUT YOUR OWN COMPULSIVE
> CYNICISM, YOUR "YADAYADAYDA, WHAT YOU SAY ISN'T TRUE BECAUSE I CAN'T
> FIND IT IN MY REFERENCE LIBRARY!" Just because it isn't in the library
> doesn't mean it isn't so, you ivory tower recluse. There's a whole world
> of experience beyond the walls of your library.
> 
> > - I ridicule his ponitifications and perhaps I am insulting - I do
> > not ridicule him personally though
> 
> OH! Of course you do. Calling him a liar and a cheat isn't ridiculing
> him personally?
> Look at what YOU wrote above. You must know that it is a hallmark of
> mental illness to unintentionally contradict oneself, and then be
> completely unaware of it. It's a sign of a separation from reality.
> Accept the responsibility for the completely unfounded attacks you've
> made on a man you've never met, who has never done you any harm, and go
> see a doctor and learn to focus so that your words relate to reality, at
> least a little bit.
> 
> > (I don't know him personally)
> 
> EXACTLY, SO HOW DO YOU KNOW HE's A LIAR OR CHEAT? -- OR ANY OTHER
> OUTRAGEOUS SMART-ASSED REMARK YOU MADE AS TO HIS VERACITY, OR
> ORIGINALITY? What is the real reason for your
> repeated attacks on a man you admit you don't know personally?
> 
> > - I
> > suggest that if you want make fun of me on the list that you make an effort
> > to find something real to insult 
> 
> OH, you admit you're not real? Well, you might be pleased to know that I
> think you're real, your unfounded attacks on this list are real, and are
> really felt by real people.
>  
> >- That way it would mean something instead
> > of just  making you look desperatately mean
> 
> Oh, BOO HOO HOO...
> If you want to find someone desperately mean, take a look in the
> mirror.  You're the most vicious person on this list in my opinion, and
> without any reason for it. Now you are only getting what you dish out.
> You should be prepared for that, since YOU started it.
> 
> Now, I hope you'll take the time to cool off, start to pay attention to
> what you say, and then say constructive, positive things on this list
> forevermore.
> 
> john
>