predestination & the preterite [Re: MDMD(3)--Just a thought]

[Paul Mackin]

Jules Siegel wrote:

> I would be interested in seeing further discussion of the relationship
> between Calvinism and class structure, as well as its role in the history of
> industrialism. In reading Elaine Pagels' book on the Gnostics, I see many
> points that indicate that the Gnostics were driven out of mainline
> Christianity by people who acted more like businessmen or political leaders
> than religious figures.

>>>Well, this may seem a little unorthodox but I'm halfwayinclined to imagine that the adoption of a Calvinistic flavor in
the local religion derives from the success of industrialism,
rather than vice versa as you may be implying. If I were a
prominent member of a rich, materially successful society, I
think I might well be inclined to believe it was doing something
very very right, even in some trancendental sense. And of course to 
balance things off there has to be a nonelect group of
n'er-do-wells. So, why NOT incorporate this into the religion
one pays respects to come Sunday morning. 

This is obviously a gross over-simplification, but worth
saying nevertheless. I do think religion sometimes gets
blamed for bad conditions when really it is only following
along rather than fomenting or condoning. Of course it
should be doing more than simply not condoning but often
there is little choice given the powers-that-be. 

By the way, doesn't Pagels' point that the orthodox in
Christianity was decided on the basis of practical
(business) considerations support the view that religion
is not primarily the independent variable in the function.

On what seems to me to be a related point,
has anyone seen a new book called _Fairwell to Catholic
Ireland_ (or something like that).  I saw a review of it
somewhere. The jist of it was that priest-ridden Ireland
is no more, and this is an unfortunate thing because
contrary to popular opinion the Church was NOT principally
the cause of the country's backwardness and ignorance but
in fact was moving a backward society along as fast as was
feasible.

I know I'm sounding like a filthy reactionary.

			P.