gallows, slavery, ect

[calbert at pop.tiac.net]

Brian states:
> "Commerce without Slavery is unthinkable" - Commerce depends on differential 
> valuation:  each side must believe that they are giving less for the goods in
> trade than they are taking.  One sure way to generate excess valuation is to 
> steal something:  by taking it, you put in little work, so you don't need to
> get the full labor value out of it.  Slavery is a form of stealing labor. 

Not sure I'm satisfied with the notion that slavery is "stealing 
labor" as there is a maintainance cost to keeping them. They are an 
input, that has a cost of procurement. What is true is that the lives 
of slaves are obviously stolen.
What you are referring to is more akin to Marx's basic premise that 
capitalism requires that workers not be paid the full marginal value 
of their labor. This, when added to rental of capital yields the 
capitalist's profit. Obviously slavery is the ultimate illustration.

> Deprive a family of arable land, education, clean water, and you can force them
> into the factories without claiming direct ownership of them.

This can result from natural disasters or a desire to make a better 
life. The 19th century "zemstvo" liberals (essentially landed gentry 
in favor of the abolition of serfdom) of Russia implemented all 
manner of educational and training programs for the released masses. 
They also created other facilities to further the agricultural 
training and opportunity for their former serfs. The ironic result 
was that most of these trained folk migrated in two directions. One 
branch headed off to what is referred to as the Don basin, essentially 
southeast of what constituted "europan" russia, the other groups 
headed to the urban centers, primarily St. Petersburg, where the 
state was building the most advanced factories in Europe. I don't 
think it is too facile to say that the former evolved into the Kulak 
class, against which the latter (the urban industrial proletariat) 
took such extraordinary measures in the 20's and 30's.

> It is the threat of death which keeps the
> workers from leaving their jobs out of tedium or frustration.

Less that than the alternative of starvation. I'm in a business 
related to the shoe industry. I once asked a guy who had seen a lot 
of chinese factories how the masters maintain leverage. He replied 
that the factory compounds are surrounded by tent cities where 
thousands of starving people line up to take the place of any 
malcontents. Oddly enough, your phrasing almost obscures what is a 
stomach turning reality.
Please never buy Nike or Reebok at retail.
> 
> And why would Slavery without the Gallows be hollow and a Waste?  Because, no matter
> what short term threats might keep the slaves in line, without the thought of 
> death, they will eventually leave the arrangement,

There was a little leverage resulting from the fact that most slaves, 
particularly the ones on the Caribbean islands, had nowhere to escape 
to. The ones sent to sugar plantations in Brazil probably did escape 
to form communities in the jungle or along the extensive coastline, 
but they had to be mighty ambitious, as it is a somewhat hostile 
terrain to traverse.

I apologize if any of the above was too obvious to mention.

Sherwood- Come home, you are sorely missed!