Lineland vs. %list folks words - a brief review

[jester]

Jules and et al.,

Ahh... I see... perhaps you're right.  The use of "plagiarism" is a bit
strong, but in context I *thought* (and intended for) the message would get
across... chiefly, that having read the book as an OBJECTIVE outsider (I
wasn't used in the book), with enough knowledge of the subject and the
Pynchon-l list (I was present when this all happened), who has the opinion
that the posts are more than brief comments and that they are essential to
the book's success.  Furthermore, since there was some ambiguity as to how
the posts were collected and used, I think it is especially imperitive that
there be greater attribution of source material than is actually provided.
Furthermore, it should be noted, whether intended by you or not, that this
book IS being cast into the scholarly arena and WILL most likely be used to
some degree by students and scholars investigating and discussing TRP's
books and the TRP mythos.  In this case, Lineland proves itself, in my most
humble opinion, lacking accountability and authority... that is, if people
in the book are going to be quoted in scholarly papers hence forth, there
needs to be some sort of was to be sure that quotes are attributed to the
correct individual, and I think the format of the book is confusing in that
regard... not everywhere, but certainly there are moments where attribution
becomes difficult.  I don't think this is a legal issue for you Jules, or
Dale, but one where it probably would have been a good idea to foresee the
possibility that more responsibility should have been taken in this regard.
No offense meant, and certainly -- considering the rest of my brief comments
-- you should have been aware that I think the book is valuable and a "good
read."  My comparison of Lineland with one of my students' papers was  meant
to elucidate this idea.  Obviously, I was in error, and I apologize. Trust
me, you grade enough Freshman Written Composition essays, you LEARN the
importance of attribution and citing sources, and you begin to see books of
scholarly import in this regard.  And like it or not, entertainment value
aside, Lineland's subject matter does INVOLVE Pynchon, and there are a
number of instances in the book that are especially revealing -- outside of
the posts from Pynchon-l -- to make the book more than a tad interesting to
Pynchon scholars.

Again, Jules (and Dale), I think my comments have been fair and honest.  I
do apologize for the "plagiarism" remarks, and hope that this message does
much to clear that up.  Furthermore, I understand that your responses to my
comments are your attempt to keep this discussion in the public record, and
I welcome that.

The book is extremely successful at illustrating what the Pynchon-L mailing
experience is like.  I applaud you in that regard.

JJ "Jester"


At 07:19 AM 05/09/1997 -0500, you wrote:
>At 10:44 PM 05/8/97 -0400, jester <jester at snet.net> wrote:
>
>>It's certainly not downright plagiarism, and Jules does cite each author --
>but the permission thing still gets in the way... especially since, in my
>opinion, some of the posts and subject matter included might be fuel for
>someone's article or essay -- which in the end COULD have commercial value.
>
>I appreciate the rest of your remarks, but I want to take very strong
>exception to the sentence above. Using "plagiarism" even with a modifier is
>really very unfair here.
>
>Specifically, which items are you including? All of John Mascaro's
>observations had prior review. Andrew gave me his enthusiastic carte blanche
>to use anything he wrote. The fact that any given item is quoted in the book
>does not in any way diminish it's presumed commercial or scholarly value.
>These aren't exclusive tidbits. They are, at best, academic chats. The
>majority of the minor items aren't really much more than scholarly chewing gum.
>
>I could have gone through and paraphrased each minor posting, but that
>wasn't the point of the book. It also could have been quite unfair, as it
>would have enabled me to to distort the comment, whether cosciously or
>unconsciously, in the direction that best suited my own aims.
>
>Maybe if you think of it as a visit to a literary cocktail party with each
>of these items as a kind of snapshot of a guest, it will make more sense.
>It's also a modern version of a very old form, the epistolatory book.
>
>--
>Professional English-Language Editorial Services
>Jules Siegel http://www.caribe.net.mx/siegel/jsiegel.htm
>>From US: http://www.yucatanweb.com/siegel/jsiegel.htm
>Apdo 1764 Cancun Q. Roo 77501 Tel 011-52-98 87-49-18 Fax 87-49-13
>
>