GRGR (15): Good & Evil (was Enzian...)

[Terrance F. Flaherty]

Paul Mackin wrote:
> 
> Good discussion. I've got another question however. What would the result
> be if we changed the subject of the thread from "Good & Evil" to
> "Pleasure & Pain?" Evil and good are such theological and philosophical
> notions. Pleasure and pain are more down to earth. So, under the
> new scheme MORALITY would consist in trying to promote pleasure and
> trying to prevent pain (an optimizing problem, but no matter). Thus I
> would I have to rephrase my previously expressed contention as follow: In
> reading _Gravity's Rainbow_ I do not  find myself really BELIEVING very
> firmly in the PAIN that is purportedly taking place. And the way I KNOW I
> do not believe in the pain is that I never find myself WANTING IT TO STOP.
> Though I won't go so far a to say I experience the sadistic events as
> pleasurable--this might not be all that far from the truth either.
> Shocking! you might say, but remember this IS Pynchon  after all. Of
> course I must say that I don't know if my reaction to reading novels is at
> all typical. The fact of the matter is that when something
> painful--reeely painful--is going on in a book I truly do not want that
> pain to continue. I want it to stop. Need an example. Ok here's one. Take
> another book of comparable literary merit, _American Pastoral_, Philip
> Roth's recent 60s novel. In that book Swede's (the hero, usually referred
> to as "the Swede") daughter's self destructive behavior (though based on
> some kind of extreme idealism it may be argued) was painful to Swede in
> the worst possible way. It was killing him. And because Roth is a superb
> novelist the pain was also killing ME. I didn't want it to continue. I
> truly experienced it as EVIL (to return to earlier terminology). I wanted
> it to stop. I wanted the girl to tell her revolutionary confreres to go
> fuck themselves and return home to her suffering father. This is what I
> mean by BELIEVING in fictional reality.
> 
>                         Loving it all, P.


Haven't read Roth's American Pastoral, but it sounds like it
might be read along with Don DeLillo's MAO II?  I think
Rilke might help this discussion. Anyone interested in
talking about Blicero's reading of Rilke?