grgr (34): "the tower" (747)

[Can't Wait]

Otto fills the void:

'If there's an overall "meaning" in the novel in question it seems to
be to me: be kind to each other.'

If this is true, and I don't doubt it because I don't really know
anything about the Rainbow, then at least we can be certain that
Pynchon did not, at the time anyway, have a terribly deep
understanding of Nietzsche, wiping out any possibility for him being
a member of the Towering Elect, the ubermensch.  Yes, I assume that
anybody who authentically (how's that!) comprehends Nietzsche agrees
with him.

NIETZSCHE
What?

PYNCHON
We should all be kind to one another.

NIETZSCHE
Why?

PYNCHON
Because, um....that way....um....then, you see....kindness
prevails...

NIETZSCHE
I see.  So, you wouldn't much agree with my Zarathustra that man is
something that must be overcome?

PYNCHON
'My Zarathustra'?  Who talks like that?

NIETZSCHE
So that whole Christian dogma thing, it doesn't really bother you? 
It doesn't ring false for you?  Doesn't seem fabricated?

PYNCHON
Maybe.  But aren't kindness and Christianity two different things?

NIETZSCHE
(pause)
Well ya got me on that one....

Nietzsche of course also bowed at the altar of ellipses.  I wrote a
novel called Ellipsis once.  Just a couple days ago I was trying to
remember Python's drunken philosophy song.  I remember most of it,
but I'd appreciate anybody hammering the whole thing out.

Regarding 'And a soul in every stone', I have meditated all morning
on its meaning and discovered that Pynchon did not mean One thing by
it, but many things at once, and nothing specific.  'What's something
real cool sounding that can be interpreted in many different ways? 
Oh here, this will work....'

m




--- Otto Sell <o.sell at TELDA.NET> wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark Wright AIA <mwaia at yahoo.com>
> To: <lorentzen-nicklaus at t-online.de>
> Cc: <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 2:21 PM
> Subject: Re: grgr (34): "the tower" (747)
> 
> 
> 
> Howdy
> 
> --- Otto Sell <o.sell at telda.net> wrote:
> 
> > There is a Hand to turn the time,
> > Though thy Glass today be run,
> > Till the Light that hath brought the Towers low
> > Find the last poor Pret'rite one . . .
> > Till the Riders sleep by ev'ry road,
> > All through our crippl'd Zone,
> > With a face on ev'ry mountainside,
> > And a Soul in ev'ry stone. . . . (760)
> >
> > ....Übergangenen erreichen.
> > (When the tower which represents the Elect is destroyed by
> > lightning,
> > the
> > destroying effect is reversed to healing and now the healing
> light
> > can reach
> > the Preterite) - what TRP again has is about is the reversal of
> the
> > binary oppositions.
> 
> <Oppositions shmoppositions.  This is an extraordinary post. 
> Buried
> <within a beautiful passage I have always read with a sense of
> despair
> <(even unto a sniffle and a tear or two when I'm especially
> stressed
> <that way) bears a seed of hope under this interpretation.  What a
> <joyful discovery, Otto!
> <
> <How confident are you of your translation?  The word "Preterite"
> <seems to force a Tarot gloss into Pynchonian territory
> all-too-neatly.
> <Does it really work or are you pushing the language a bit?  Is
> there
> <anything in your source about the Tarot which would give us a clue
> as
> <to who's souls end up imprisoned in those stones?
> <
> <Wonderful post, Otto.
> <Mark
> 
> ----------- schnipp -----------
> 
> "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for
> your
> country."
> 
> The reversed binaries are important, not the Tarot. The tower being
> a
> metaphor for the Elect is very old and goes back to old medieval
> Europe when
> the Castle Tower symbolized the power of Feudalism. The others were
> living
> in huts, or as I said in an earlier post, were sitting in the sump,
> looking
> up to the tower.
> 
> I thought the souls of the preterite, "second sheep" (GR, p. 3). If
> the
> Puritan Elect who say of themselves that they are saved (from the
> beginning)
> can be thrown down, if the Tower can be destroyed, then we, from
> the very
> beginning doomed Preterite, can have the hope of being saved.
> 
> And of the faces of mountainsides I always thought of Monument
> Valley, the
> giant Presidents' faces. Who are put into stone there? F****ing
> encarta does
> not give the names.
> 
> Every human is equally important - this is the "message" (if you
> got a
> message go to Western Telegraph) I'm reading out of it. Using power
> on other
> peoples' lives, manipulating them is immoral, especially if done by
> people
> who claim to be morally superior to others.
> 
> But the last lines still are a little secret to me.
> Well, and I don't believe that anybody can say that he has a
> definite
> "right"
> interpretation. There can only be temporarily solutions.
> 
> If there's an overall "meaning" in the novel in question it seems
> to be to
> me: be kind to each other.
> 
> Otto
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



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