GRGR (17): german samples

[Lorentzen / Nicklaus]

rj schrieb:

> >   "'was ist los, meinen sumpfmenschen?'" (362) - "what's up, my
>  swamp-people?"
> >   (in standard german it would have been "...meine...").

> Is there a play on "meinen" (think), though, or would the grammar be too
> screwy. ("What's the matter, think you/the Swampfellows?" -- objective
> case/tense) 

  though i'd never have come on this myself, this meaning could indeed be 
  intended. and the grammar is not "too screwy". when you change the word   
  position a little, it's, though pretty unusual, not really wrong: "was, meinen 
  sumpfmenschen, ist los?" 


>"meiner
> Sumpfmenschen" (Swampies like me)

  this would be "sumpfmenschen wie ich".


> >   "'raketemensch!' [screams säure]" (366) - don't want to cook up this one
> >   again, but as a native speaker emil would probably use the correct form
> >   "raketenmensch".

> Could it be slang, though, or an idiomatic neologism? Like "sez".

   possible. but i don't know. 

> Or is
> it *Slothrop's* faulty German (seeing as it was the "same idea", and
> Slothrop seems to have had it *first* at 366.8-9 --> and so, is Saure a
> telepath? Is sharing mull one way of achieving ESP adeptness?) 

  that's a really interesting approach! think i'll buy it.       

>Or is it
> a refusal of the masculinisation implicit in moving from "Rakete" to
> "Raketen". Rocketman, on the model of Plasticman: beyond gender? (I'd
> say all of the above.)

  uh, difficult. in german, the word "rakete" is feminine in all possible cases.

> Saure's speech at 366.4 sounds pretty much colloquial U.S.-speak to me,
> not the type of English your typical native German speaker would be
> using either:
>
> "Haven't you ever noticed, when you're this Blitzed and you want
> somebody to show up, they always do?"
>
> "Blitzed" has to be a pun on the slangy American English meaning of "out
> of it" (or indeed, this is the *primary* meaning), but its
> capitalisation brings up a whole heap of other associations as well, all
> relevant to Slothrop's journey: the London Blitz, blitzkreig, lightning
> flash/sudden and serendipitous enlightenment. But the clincher here in
> what I will call the Incorrect German Fallacy is "show up". It is very
> unlikely that a native German speaker would use this idiomatic
> expression in this context at this time.
>
> The dialogue of non-English speaking characters is anglicised or
> Americanised throughout the novel (cf. Dzaqyp and Tchitchy in the
> previous section). This is often wrought to comic effect, deliberate
> anachorism (NB *not* anachronism*), often exaggeratedly so. It brings to
> mind the way Western, and particularly American, popular culture (the
> cinema, primarily) has appropriated foreign cultural experience as its
> own. Saure's "error" is perhaps a deliberate wry comment on this type of
> linguistic imperialism, as well as evidence of his telepathic adeptness
> (my model). This would certainly fit with the omniscient pose he adopts
> throughout the sequence, and which endlessly confounds and frustrates
> poor Tyrone. Whatever, the name sticks.

  I do buy that, too.  
  
> I think if Mr Pynchon was made aware of errors in translation, enough so
> to correct one (Der --> Die Meistersinger), then he would have corrected
> them all. 

  that's not 'conclusive' to me. i mean, the original titles of wagner's operas 
  are somehow standardized trademarks. one probably finds them in each & every 
  general lexikon. most of the other, well, problematic cases (- getting more 
  and more cautious ...) are far more complicated.    

>Why should we assume that the type of anachorism outlined
> above can occur only in one language, the apparently dominant language?
> By saying this aren't we falling into the whole cultural imperialism
> trip ourselves, or implying that Mr Pynchon has, when it is patently
> clear that he hasn't and that this is one of the most important themes
> of his text? For me, there is *always* meaning in the minutiae, the
> devil in the details, so to speak.

  mmhh, i will think about it. this 'german error'-issue seems to be more   
  complicated than i thought ... 

                                            head scratching, kfl