GRGR(19): Whipping Gretel

[Lycidas at worldnet.att.net]

David Morris wrote:
> 
> --- Jeremy Osner <jeremy at xyris.com> wrote:
> > The transition from Slothrop's experience whipping
> > and fucking Greta
> > Erdmann, to Pökler's experience years earlier,
> > fantasizing about doing it,
> > is totally seamless, which suggests to me some sort
> > of kinship between the two of them. What do they
> > have in common besides their real/imagined
> > coupling with Marge?
> 
> This "real/imagined" aspect is the heart of the
> matter.  Polker (poke her?) carries Greta's image into
> his sex with Leni.  Leni is later ushered away by
> Them.  The "real" celluloid bondage sex scene is later
> "relived" again, this time with stand-in Slothrop
> fulfilling Greta's fantasy (Max having been ushered
> away _previously_ by Them).  There is a sort of
> Mobius-strip symmetry going on here, playing with
> time, gender, and reality.  Very elegant.

Right, an intense, focused shot at the whole the novel. 

> 
> > Pökler obviously, I mean we're just about to
> > read a 30-page story
> > about his passivity, that is practically the sum
> > total of his character in the
> > book. And Slothrop too, I think, sort of moves along
> > the pathways laid out for him by his author without
> > making many futile attempts at resistance.[snip]
> 
> I think this is only half correct.  Polker does seem
> an object lesson in passivity and slavery in service
> to Them.  To a degree all of us share his sin,
> including Slothrop.  But Slothrop has a spirit Polker
> never approaches.

Right, Slothrop makes several futile attempts, as do so many
of the characters in the novel, but for various reasons, not
simply or only Them, the fail. 
> 
> > - and we could talk here about the "What
> > sea is this you have crossed?" line in the previous
> > section, how it could be directed at Slothrop
> 
> Or at us.
> 
> > -- we will have to wait and see :--)
> > I reckon I might assert that Pökler is the passive
> > element in Slothrop's nature -- but I'm not sure
> > what I would mean by that. [snip]
> 
> Whatever you might mean, I think its closer to the
> point.
> 
> David Morris

I don't see how this would work? Polker is the passive
element in Slothrop's nature? Sounds interesting, but I'm
not sure?