[Dave Monroe]

.... well, I have to agree with just about everyone on this question.  You
really SHOULD be able to read and enjoy and be interested in and be stimulated
by and maye even learn a little something from the books--Pynchon, Shakespeare,
whoever (actually, I think DeLillo IS a "popular" writer, certainly, Libra is
eminently approachable, and I can't imagine too many complaints about his other
books from yr "average" novel-readin' reader)--WITHOUT necessarily taking a
seminar on any of it or delving into the so-called "critical apparatus" or
whatever (those annotations sure come in handy when one's English is a bit at a
remove from that of a given author, however--how much longer 'til we "modernize"
Shakespeare the way we do Chaucer?  And I've been recently contemplating the
eventual all-out penguin Classics ed. of Gravity's Rainbow, complete with
traditional introduction and annotations), BUT ... well, I also realize and
appreciate the value of, quite enjoy, even, said "apparatus."  At any rate,
Gravity' Rainbow was pretty much my inroad into capital-L Lit'rachure in the
first place, somewhere in the midst of an attempted career as a physics student,
so ... But me, my real struggles have been with Joyce. Ulysses is rough going
enough--the Homer, mythology, whatever, is one thing, but the Vico, the
theology, the Irish history ... indeed, I initially thought of Gravity's Rainbow
as a Ulysses I had some inroads to--but I can only claim to have really (REALLY)
read Finnegans Wake in the way that one can claim to have added vermouth to a
dry martini ... but my beef is hardly with people who ENJOY a given text without
worrying all too much about what untold complexities might lie within, just
don't badmouth it if you're not willing to see what others might have noticed
that you didn't ... but, hey, on Shakespeare in the American West, see Lawrence
W. Levine, Highbrow/Lowbrow: The Emergence of Cultural Hierarchy in America ...
all sorts of great stuff on say, opera as well ... Shakespeare, opera were,
indeed, once "popular," of the people, in These United States, apparently ...

Ben McLeod wrote:

> > > The natural prey of English Professors and teaching assistants- a whole
> > > nother matter, entirely.
> >
> >Not really, and I would hope that the texts are strong enough to speak for
> >themselves. But the fact of the matter is that that's where Pynchon is
> >probably doomed to be most read. As I said, students aren't all caught up
> >in
>
> >can you really dismiss anyone affiliated in any way with a university >ipso
> >facto? isn't that somewhat arrogant?
>
> >a bad generalization?
>
> >- -c.
>
>   Alright, I was really going to try and keep my mouth shut- I'm new to the
> list, only been on for the last couple days, and I had decided to hold back
> for a while, you know, get the feel for things...
>   But I've got to it-- does it ever seem like maybe Pynchon, and Gaddis, and
> deLillo never seem to trickle down to "the masses" *shudder* at the shotgun
> spread of generalization- because those 'in the know' have a tendency to
> hold these books over their heads?
>   This is purely personal experience, as someone who didn't benefit from
> college (didn't attend), and was tarred and feathered out of high school,
> but whenever I've brought up Pynchon with the educated folks, I feel awfully
> patronized.  As if to say that since I never read these  books in a class
> with 20 other people, I didn't really get it.
>   Reading as recreation is becoming more and more infrequent (it seems), but
> the hyperliterate folks don't seem to be very encouraging.
>   In what seems to me to be a perfectly appropriate reference, I would refer
> my esteemed colleagues to Kyle Baker's classic 'graphic novel', _The Cowboy
> Wally Show_, when the fat drunken western-style namesake is accused of
> "destroying" Hamlet (by performing it in prison with hand puppets)
>   "Oh yeah, I'm destroying Shakespear's snob appeal...How can you be so
> selfish?  Why do you hate the common man so?  Why do you want to deprive
> them of the cultural advantages you have?
>   "I know your kind.  You like the idea that Shakespear belongs to a select
> group of intellectuals.  You like the fact that you can quote Shakespear at
> a party, and only one or two people will really know what you are talking
> about.  Shakespear is the secret language of an intellectual in-crowd.  With
> your secret club code.
>   "You don't appreciate Shakespear.  Shakespear was an entertainer.  Your
> just using his genius to make yourself feel superior to other people.  If
> anyone has destroyed Shakespear, it's you."
>
>   This was not meant to be an indictment of the list, and everyone posting
> on it.  I'm pleased to be privy to these discussions, and I hope no one will
> take this personally.
>   But I sincerly love GR, Vineland, V, ect.  And gaddis.  And Coover, and
> plenty of other people whos works I feel like I've had to steal from a place
> where I was unwelcome, and often still do (like _this_ is going to help!)
>
>   _The Cowboy Wally Show_ also has the giant monster spectacular "Ed Smith,
> Lizard of Doom".  Worth a look.
>
> nohead
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