Pokler

[barbara100 at jps.net]

Thank you, David, for your take on Pokler.  I'll read it again and consider
it as I continue my readings.
No, my "sloppy" attempts at discussing Pokler weren't attempts to insult you
or even to disagree with your basic thoughts on Technology (I even kinda
liked what you said to that guy in Bio-Technology). I was simply making a
point of your "wormy" hell-in-a-handbasket attitude.  It's really got
nothing at all to do with technology (or for that matter you); what you said
that day, so defensively, it just struck me as an excuse not to care. And
with Pynchon and Pokler and a couple of existentialists in the back of my
mind that day, you struck a chord in me, David.  I hardly remember what you
said or its original context; I don't care to argue it real, or only
perceived. I only cared about making that one single point (one of a
hundred, I'm sure) that I saw in Pynchon's writings about choice and
responsibility. I don't think my arguments were all that sloppy,  though.  I
did give two excellent GR quotes to support my idea.  At least give me
credit for that.

If you want to know where I saw condescension, it's here:

"And I would also suggest that your emotional feelings have overcome a
rational consideration of what I've posted on this topic resulting in your
characterizing my position as "giving up."  I'd also suggest that Pynchon
might be pointing out a little more than this "giving up" attitude in the
subject of Pokler."

The old "emotional" one-two punch, effective at flooring almost every woman.
And, "Pynchon might be pointing out a little more than...[What? my
silly-woman take on life? Is that maybe what you meant?]"

Condescension that really isn't there...When you write it, David, it's
always open to interpretation. You should know that. It's rule #1 in almost
any English class. And rule #2 is Know thy reader.









----- Original Message -----
From: David Morris <fqmorris at hotmail.com>
To: <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 1:47 PM
Subject: RE: Pokler


>
> Pardon me, Barbara, but I think you need to re-read my last post.  It was
> wholly civil and the condescension you saw was not there.  I provided you
> with links to subjects you expressed ignorance about that were a part of
our
> discussion.  Was that where you saw  condescension?
>
> It's fine that you love the Pokler segments of GR, but you were
> characterizing my attitude toward technology and personal responsibility
as
> similar, which to you meant "giving up."  I have suggested a more rational
> and less "feeling" approach might serve this discussion better.  Your
saying
> that my post "feels" like Pokler was just plain sloppy discussion (BTW, it
> was also a bit insulting, but I did not take offense.  Was my taking
offense
> what you were expecting?  Is that why you saw my response as
> condescending?).
>
> As for Pokler, he demonstrates many things other than the "giving up" or a
> "what the fuck" attitude you suggest.  He is a passionate dreamer who is
too
> immature and self-absorbed to be responsible for a family, and his passion
> as well as his alienation from his stronger wife make him ripe for being
> co-opted and then coerced into a goal which perverts his original ideals.
> Does that mean his ideals were unworthy?  No.  What makes the perversion
of
> his original passion "evil?"  Many things, none of which condemns his
> original passion (which is relevant to my central point about stem cell
> research not being an evil thing):  The rocket is a killing machine.
People
> are dying in its production.  His family is being held hostage, and he
> continues in Their employ. And re. his "giving up," Pokler has been
> carefully manipulated and conditioned into his resignation.
>
> Sincerely (as before),
> David Morris
>
>
> >From: "barbara100 at mail.jps.net" <barbara100 at mail.jps.net>
> >
> >Then tell us, David, by all means--What does Pynchon mean to say with
> >Pokler? He's my favorite part of the whole book, and I'm really quite
> >interested. It doesn't serve your point very well to just hammer me with
> >condescension.
>
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