answering otto Re: pynchon-l-digest V2 #1590

[Dave Monroe]

... well, just when we seemed to be playing nice here, and for just
about the first time since I signed on myself those long, several months
ago now.  And, after a lunchtime of deliberation, I intend to stay.  But
not without a little system-purging of my own.  I might address
particular individuals below, but I would not post this here without
expecteing, wanting to reach the audience at large.  But I am addressing
those individuals I expect will yield the least amount of--indeed,
no--venom here, so ...

Thomas: I think you know the great esteem in which I hold you here, so
I'm hoping I can feel safe in saying to you, at least, you are wrong in
singling out Doug here.  This melee has, indeed, been a group effort,
one which I, along with virtually every currently regular poster, have
participated in as well.  Sometimes at least with some respect to the
decorum of a scholarly argument here, but, if not just as often, rather
more glaringly, not.  It takes at LEAST two to tangle, the protagonist
(oops, spoiler warning) of Fight Club notwithstanding ..

But my "excuse," such as it isn't, will no doubt be that of anyone
involved.  I fell compelled, by virtue of, not only "deliberate"--I will
not go so far as to say "criminal," as I'm generally used to a legal
system in which "misrepresentations" are "criminal" insofar as they
cause actual harm, or are offered in the course of a legal proceding,
and I will not say "stupid" as I honsestly don't think any of us here
are any more "stupid" than I am, at least--"confusions of" both
"fictional representation and historical reality" and of historical
reperesentation and the realities of various fictions, as well as the
"deliberate ... misreadings of other people's"--not to mnention my own,
as I gently but firmly point out from time to time--"posts," and
"libellous"--though, again, I will note the legal overtones
here--"allegations against," for starters, myself, not to mention Doug.

Now, I have urged Doug as well to drop certain issues here, at least
until such time as they actually surface here (and they have, and do,
and, more likely than not, alas, will ...) again, hoping to maintian the
apparent Pax Pynchoniana we might well have been on the brink of, but I
will note that I did that because I knew I could do so without having my
head bitten off, without accusations and counteraccusations.  Doug and I
do disagree on many, funadamental issues, but we can do so civilly.

Now, without wnating to, much less being authorized to, speak for Doug
here, I will note that I can undersatnd why he's found it difficult to
stand down here, as, even when he's only posting those useful and
interesting bits he does bring to our attention, people are insulting
him gratuitously (and when isn't an insult "gratutitous"?), to the point
of using his name perjoratively ("millisonically").  There are
characterizations to caricatures to ("deliberate"?) misrepresentations
of what he's posted here being reproduced ridiculed, and, in the
meantime, I've been attacked, for starters, merely for agreeing in
outline (I obviulsy hold my own opinions on how text, textuality,
language function) with reading that Otto later offered as well, that I
believe JBFRAME offered supporting evidence for, that ... well, I don't
appreciate it anymore than he does, anymore than anyone, Doug, jbor,
kai, woever, else would ...

Some of you, at least, jbor and kai, in particular, will no doubt say
much the same about Doug, about me, even, and there will indeed be some
truth to that as well.  I am not proud of having to resort to the
occasional insult myself--to jbor, and, I believe, David Morris, off the
top of my head, but I do think I've been relatively patient here--and
retaliation is no excuse, but it's the only explanation I can offer.
Exasperation.  And the same can, should, and I hope, will be said, by
all concerned.  But, again, it takes two to tangle, and, here, it has
taken the entire public face of a listserve, it seems ...

"Everything else followed," indeed, "as if it was ordained," but in
actuality as it might well be expected to follow amongst a highly
intelligent, but nonetheless highly charged, and, in some cases, highly
competetive (though I wouldn't call myself "highly" so) group of people
who largely know each other only onscreen, who do not have to see, or
suffer, or otherwise be held responsible for the effects of what they
post.  Someone suggested not too long ago that things might be rather
different here (in either direction, perhaps) were we all within fist's
reach of each other.  Someone also mentioned "too much testosterone,"
but ...

We do, Ivan, have a surprising amount of time to devote to this, I
agree.   I do this on my down time, not typically my free time.  I may
be a geek, but not of the cyber variety.  "Lit theory weenie," well ...
well, even if my mom were still around, she would know no doubt better
than to think I was cool, so ....  But this is indeed one of my few
"intellectual" outlets.  Bailed out of grad school at the last moment
for ostensibly honorable, perhaps realiztically, but, ultimately, either
ill-considered or absolutely unnecessary reasons myself.  Largely, I
just otherwise get what little sleep I can between putting in
appearances as a peon in the service economy, with the occasional movie
and/or night on the town (read "face down in the gutter") wedged in
between.  But I'm glad that you and Miguel and ... and .. have
intervened, pointed out that we are indeed discouraging participation,
interest, even.  And we all should be very concernhed about that,
indeed.  I know I was intimidated at first, and remain intimidated,
though not always necessarily for the same reasons ...

Anyway, well, everybody, let me know ...