Holocaust (Re: avoid the shitstorm!)

[lorentzen-nicklaus]

otto schrieb:

> depression and the unemployment. The system could rely on the waves of
> 19th-century and medieval anti-Semitism which had put anti-Semitism deep
> into the consiousness of many Germans of all social classes.

  could you please elaborate a little on how "the waves of 19th-century and 
  medieval anti-semitism" managed to do so? interests me sociologically.


> I think it's inevitable for us postwar born to read Hilberg, Lanzmann and
> Goldhagen to get an "impression" what murderous consequences the officially
> introduced anti-Semitism in Germany had and that there was a development
> from separation to annihilation.

  hilberg i can recommend too. not only his classic "the destruction of the 
  european jews" from the early 60s, but also the complementary "perpetrators, 
  victims, bystanders. the jewish catastrophy 1933-1945", nyc 1992: 
  harpercollins (german edition was published the same year at s. fischer, ffm). 
  the book, btw, does not deal with dora mittelbau. 

  where do you see parallels to hilberg in the pamphlet of goldhagen?   

> About Keith's question what all this has to do with GR - us and them - the
> nazi-system was strictly binary. You were either "Volksgenosse" or not, and
> if not you were deprived of all social and human rights, "vogelfrei" as the
> old German word says but this "freedom" isn't positive at all - the meaning
> of this originally beautiful word has been reversed to the contrary, meaning
> "free to be killed" by anybody.

  at this point the "nazi-system" does not really differ from the 
  "commie-system", does it? dozens of millions were killed for not being 
  "comrade" enough. rosa luxemburg's famous saying - "freedom is always 
  the freedom of those who think different" - is usually reported wrongly. 
  unlike the legend says, this was never meant as a general statement for free 
  speech, but only as an intervention concerning internal left debates. mrs.    
  luxemburg never thought that the "kapitalistischen ausbeuterschweine"   
  (capitalist exploiter pigs[!]) or the "scheißliberalen" (shity liberals)   
  should have the same right to express their opinion as us oh so "progessive"  
 (whatever that might mean today...)folks. marxist philosopher ernst bloch   
  still said during the 60s "ubi est lenin ibi jerusalem". the "world civil   
  war" between 1917 and 1989 fooled the best of several generations ...

  (right, it still makes a difference that the nazi-system relied on a purely 
  wrong and racist philosophy, while communism had - theoretically - some good 
  points to make. the dead people, however, probably don't care much).

> Jews could not choose because contrary to medieval, religious anti-Semitism
> the German anti-Semitism of the 19th- and 20th century was rascist
> anti-Semitism.
   
 like english, french or american anti-semitism of the 19th- and 20th century, 
 too.

> For those who haven't read Goldhagen yet: read the book - as far as I can
> say it has the qualities to become a standard in Holocaust-research. 

   yes, "standard" is a very good word here ... a negative standard, though.



 nichts für ungut: kai