hiphop discourse

[Terrance]

lorentzen-nicklaus wrote:


> > >
> > >                     "if you ain't real about it: don't talk!" (guru, 2000)
> 
>  did i push hustler-lyrics in the first person singular? 


What's that got to do with it? 


the fuck i did (some
>  people might also remember my position on us-weapon-laws). the quoted line is
>  from "hustlin' daze", a track ending with the words "... my name on a folder/in
>  jail for life/my hustling days are over ..." in my contribution to the public
>  enemy debate i quoted a part from tricia rose's reading of "night of the living
>  baseheads", a work definitely not into the romantization of crime or something
>  (& in case you didn't realize it: with the castells-mail about cocaine trade
>  from the weekend i amplified further information on the issue). 

"I hustler" is real, real as it gets, son.  You don't have
to like it. But you can't shut me up cause you don't like
it.  Don't tell me what's real and that I can't talk about
it. You don't know me. I said nothing to you. I post my
poems and raps and all sorts of shit here all the time and
nobody says a thing, only you. Oh, and jbor, who wants so
much to keep me in his holy box. So you go and read my post
and take it personally. That's your problem. You want to
talk hip-hop, go on. I ain't gunna tell you you can't cause
it ain't real.   



like many
>  times before you try to kill a developing hiphop debate on this list with
>  mixing things up in your sick manipulative ways, aiming to delegitimate any
>  serious discussion by the implicit imputation of social romanticism or worse.

No, I did nothing like that. 



>  yes, of course, "gangsta glamour" is often part of hiphop's aesthetic
>  fascination. the question is how to deal with this. 

I don't think it needs to be dealt with. What is it you want
to do? censorship?


i'm quite aware that things
>  like crack-addiction or gang-shootings are really happening and bring suffering
>  to individuals, families and communities. yet in contrary to the intellectual
>  mainstream i do not consider hiphop to be a symptom of social anomy that has,
>  perhaps, some "folkloristic" meaning. 

Then why did you try to shut me up? 


according to my opinion hiphop is an
>  exciting new art-form, in fact the paradigmatic art-form of our present days:
>  "hiphop replaces rock'n'roll as the metropolitan music of global exchange. but
>  hiphop ain't no idealistic music, which still dreams and then fails because of
>  the wrong circumstances. these were, in hiphop, always already wrong and at
>  best one sometimes could observe someone loosening his shackles a little. hope
>  in hiphop means in most cases the fact that it hardly can come worse" (diedrich
>  diederichsen: freiheit macht arm. köln 1993: kiwi, pp. 53f., own
>  idiot-translation). & when we talk about things like "gangsta rap", we, like in
>  the case of novels, have to differentiate between the narrative "i" or "we" on
>  the one and the empirical persons on the other side. in case of hiphop, which
>  focusses on local identities, this is sometimes harder than with other
>  art-forms. it's nevertheless possible. take, for example, "devil's night" the
>  recently published work of eminem's detroit based crew d12 (läuft gerade
>  während ich noch einen drehe). from many details it's obvious that these
>  lyrics, though they certainly express personal experiences, cannot be
>  understood in terms of the social realism you find in court records or
>  something. this is about mc-ing, beats & rhymes! & to make myself completely
>  ridiculous in the eyes of all you old-school high-brows out there, i declare
>  with pleasure that i consider people like chuck d., dr. dre, moses pelham or
>  the wu-tang clan to be greater artists than, say, folks like günther grass or
>  don delillo. & now back to us, jane, darling ... let the real people do their
>  thing and make another walk to the park! stay there with your stinking poets
>  ... deine styles sind scheiße, keiner kann sie mehr hören ... & damit du dir
>  das auch schön merkst, kommt's hier noch mal zum mitschreiben: du nix machen
>  sollen denki-denki, du das nämlich nicht können ...
>                                                           go to hell!
> 
> 
> 
>   mc säure //:: ps: those interested in new german hiphop may check out
>                                           "www.azad.de".