eminem (was Re: hiphop discourse

[Phil Wise]

----- Original Message -----
From: "lorentzen-nicklaus" <lorentzen-nicklaus at t-online.de>
To: <philwise at paradise.net.nz>
Cc: <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: eminem (was Re: hiphop discourse


>
>
> Phil Wise schrieb:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Thomas Eckhardt" <thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de>
> > To: "jbor" <jbor at bigpond.com>
> > Cc: "lorentzen-nicklaus" <lorentzen-nicklaus at t-online.de>;
> > <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 10:20 AM
> > Subject: Re: eminem (was Re: hiphop discourse
>
>  [schnipp]
>
> > shortcomings of PC
> > > with capital letters) in recent years. I think that Eminem, despite
the
> > masks and
> > > the irony, expresses contempt for women (which has a long history in
rock,
> > see e.g.
> > > "Yesterday's Papers" and "Under my Thumb") and homosexuals. I have
> > listened closely
> > > to the lyrics, and I don't like this part of it. It is interesting in
the
> > context of
> > > bashing women, gays and Christopher Reeve, though, that Eminem never
says
> > anything
> > > offensive about Afro-Americans. He could, couldn't he, if it was all
about
> > parody?
> > >
> > > As to how the teenagers think about this, I wouldn't know.
> > >
> > > This said, about his lyrics, Eminem can be a very exciting rapper. And
I'd
> > prefer
> > > "Stan" or "The Real Slim Shady" to the latest crap from Bon Jovi or
Celine
> > Dion
> > > every day. And yes, he is a story-teller, and "Kim" indeed is a
> > murder-ballad - that
> > > it is the most disturbing example of its kind for me is a definite
sign of
> > his
> > > artistry. The song, by the way, is not ironic or parodic in the least.
It
> > certainly
> > > is dramatic, though...
>
>   [schnipp]
>
> > clear, however, that this doesn't mean he thinks em's some PC crusader
(in
> > real life he seems to me to be a talented guy with real problems that
aren't
> > unrelated to his background).
> >
> > This made perfect sense in the context of the lyrics, which are largely
> > about music (even "Kim" wouldn't exist without its sequel on the
(previous)
> > Slim Shady LP, which itself is a Will Smith parody that seems to sieze
on
> > Smith's silence over exactly why "things didn't work out between me and
your
> > mom", i.e. it unpacks the erasure of a female voice)  And I have to say
that
> > the only threats he makes that seem real to me on MM are against other
pop
> > stars, in other words a group of which he's a certified member.  Which
got
> > me thinking again about "Kim", which I couldn't even listen to for some
> > time.  Eminem plays both the male and female parts on the song (it's an
> > extraordinary piece of acting, which is why it's so scary), just as he
plays
> > both Stan and himself on "Stan".  Of course the fact he's created these
> > particular characters and then given them his own and his real wife's
name
> > adds to the confusion, but is really the most compelling reason why we
> > shouldn't take the violence literally (she's still alive and well,
although
> > unless she was a full and willing partner in its creation, I'd have
divorced
> > him over it as well).
>
> > Yes, it is interesting that he doesn't attack African Americans in the
same
> > way.  It has to be noted that he claims to have killed Dr Dre a couple
of
> > times on the album, and also disses him out big time on "Guilty
Conscience"
> > from the previous one
>
>
>    the video of "the real slim shady" illustrates the line "dr. dre is
>    dead/he's locked in my basement" with a short scene where eminem puts a
>    milk-package into the fridge (in which the camera is placed). while the
>    package moves nearer, one recognizes on it a foto of dre and the
missing
>    announcement ...definitely funny ... in an interview, dre, asked about
that,
>    said at first something to the effect that he himself is, of course,
not
>    especially enthusiastic concerning these specific lines. and after a
short
>    pause he added: "but then, you can't change slim shady". the track
"guilty
>    conscience", however, shows, in my opinion, that eminem disses dre as a
>    teacher and mentor (he's not adressed as an afro-american, is he?).
while dre
>    takes (which is again, of course, an artistic construction) somehow the
role
>    of a social worker ("calm dowm, relax, start breathing ... what if
there's an
>    explanation for that?" on which eminem, funny again, replys: "what, she
>    tripped, fell, landed on his dick?!"), mm is questioning dre's realness
and
>    radicalism: "hey mr. ak/mr. nwa/ comming straight outta compton/you
better
>    make way!" & since this is the slim shady lp, he convinces dre who says
at
>    the end of the song: "shoot 'em both!" on the new record eminem also
says
>    some unfriendly things about everlast, though. regarding "kim", i agree
with
>    thomas that this song is not ironic or parodistic but deeply dramatic.
yet i
>    consider this dramaticity to arise of an authentic desparation. unlike
a
>    rock'n'roll song like "under my thumb", which celebrates its male
chauvinism,
>    we do not find any kind of triumpf (which is, however, perceivable in
"'97
>    bonnie & clyde" from the former album) in "kim". the male narrator
expresses
>    both, his hatred and his love, for the woman he is going to kill. & the
>    song's most sublime moment, at times it drives me to tears, is when mm
goes
>    into "oh my god, i'm cracking up ..."
>
> kai
>
>
Cool.  Even better, on "Guilty Conscience," Dre is the conscience: "Who are
you?"  "I'm your motherfucking conscience", but when he disses his
conscience, he reminds Dre of a real-life incident where Dre assaulted talk
show host Dee Barnes - "you think I wouldn't remember?"  A great joke,
whether Dre appreciates it or not.

Phil




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>                                                                  [schnipp]
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