NP - Palestinian Moderate Leader's Home Shelled

[calbert at tiac.net]

David Morris:
> 
> This the central point demonstrated by this article:  Israel has
> essentially been waging war against the PA while maintaining a PR
> front to the contrary. That is not "supposed" to be what they are
> doing.  If this were a declared war the Palestinians would all be gone
> by now.

Again, we are obliged to ask if this is somehow "unique" to one side 
in the conflict.....I would argue that Israel is now doing what the 
PLO/PA has been doing for decades, playing one tune to the 
international media while doing the monster mash in the field....I 
have already agreed that their "stories" regarding the attack on the 
"moderate's" are contradicted by objective fact......

> The violence of the Palestinian population has been primarily against
> occupying forces, with a few acts of terrorism on Israeli turf. 

"Few acts" - this is an interesting qualification. The type of "war" 
being waged by the PLO/PA DOES NOT rely in any way on attacks 
against "occupying forces" or their assets, such actions are rare if 
not nonexistent. The strategy depends on the use of indiscriminate 
terror against civilian populations with NO rules of engagement. 
Such a strategy is not a function of raw numbers of events, but 
rather their constant "proximity" and random application....Given the 
circumstances of the area, do you really believe that individuals can 
spontaneuosly source large volumes of explosives or the 
components to make them? I'll bet that if you walked the streets of 
the West Bank looking for nails to build your deck, you would have a 
hard time finding them in great volume.........


 Of
> the 500 or so who've died in the current uprising less than 10 (I
> think) have been Israelis.

of those ten (a number I will agree to use for the purpose of this 
point) how many were "moderates"? How many were engaged in 
activity DESIGNED to evoke a violent response? How many were 
just out shopping? Has anyone bothered to ask? Does anyone care?

> > The Gray Lady is nothin' but a soiled dove.....but
> > I would still like to know what YOU consider to be "moderate" in a
> > context in which dissent is treated pretty harshly.
> 
> First of all, I resist the direction of this question, because it is
> to be used as a measure of who is "fair game" to be mortared.  The
> only fair game in this context are sources of enemy fire as was
> claimed for justification in this instance.

ahhhhhh, but David, if that is indeed the crux of the debate, why 
take such pains to pervert the language by calling this PA flunky a 
"moderate"? and is the fact that uniformed services will often do one 
thing and describe it as something else either newsworthy or a 
suitable topic for debate on the list?


But I do admire your rhetorical caution, even while I'm flattered that 
you would think me so forensically sophisticated.......
> 
> As to the relative evils you point to below, those are beyond the
> control of any party in this discussion.

Control, yes - recognition and scrutiny of - I certainly hope not.....

  But implied in this equation
> is the question for the Palestinians:  Would you rather be ruled by
> Israel or one of "your own?" 

I would suggest that the choice is not one of "rule" but rather 
"administration". And that is indeed a thorny issue for Palestinians, 
not only in Israel, where they are a minority, but also in Jordan, 
where, in spite of enjoying a substantial MAJORITY, they continue 
to be ruled by a hashemite minority imposed upon them by 
Imperialist powers.....

To this they have made their choice
> clear.

I'm not so sure. Dissenters have a very hard time being heard. 
Consider the case of this "moderate"

"Trials often lacked minimal due process guarantees, and
             judges who complained about judicial abuses sometimes
             faced retaliation. In January Chief Justice Qusai al-Abadlah
             was reportedly forced to “retire” after publication of an
             interview critical of the judicial system."

or this one:

" In September Palestinian sources reported
             Hussein Abu Ghali, fifty-five, died after being beaten by the
             chief of Presidential Security, Jazar al-Ghoul. According to
             family members, Abu Ghali had gone to the president’s 
office
             to ask for help obtaining a travel permit for his son’s medical
             treatment. The police told them a few hours later to pick up
             his body at the hospital; the family then found footprints on
             his clothing and blood around his nose and mouth."

http://www.hrw.org/hrw/worldreport99/mideast/israel.html

this is the kind of "rule by punks" that is further confirmed by the 
presence, and high rank within the PA, (until his recent demise) of 
Abu Abbas, the "hero fo the Achille Lauro" who, before tossing the 
elderly paraplegic Leon Klinghoffer over the side, had the class to 
remove his victims wristwatch. I do not beliveve for even a moment 
that Abu did so in order to melt it down for bullets for the uprising....

  Whether Israel would grant them more civil rights if they just
> accepted their rule is beyond the point, and Israel would not ever
> grant them full citizenship - They would soon be outnumbered.

WIth respect to their civil rights, I would argue that they fare better 
in Israel than they would in Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, 
Iraq, or even the "enlightened" Egypt - where the basic mechanisms 
of ensuring civil rights are non-existent. You will recall that the world 
reacted with outrage at the sight of a handful of palestinians sitting in 
limbo on the Lebanese border after having been "ejected" from 
Israel. I don't recall much of any debate when Kuwait expelled over 
100,000 of its resident Palestinians, without ANY due process 
whatsoever.  That is not to argue that the current situation in Israel is 
anything like optimal - just that it is "better".....As far as the 
demographic issue is concerned, you are correct....this is a matter 
of serious debate. 
 
> Eventually Israel must either grant statehood or eject the population
> and annex.

I believe that Israel recognizes that statehood is the only viable 
alternative. The biggest obstacle to that solution appears to be the 
status of Jerusalem, and I am wont to grant more credit to the Israeli 
position on the city - particularly given the record of previous muslim 
"stewards" of the holy places contained therein. 

hoping I am within the parameters of our mutual vow....


love,
cfa


> David Morris
> 
> > Even a "moderate" arab nation like Egypt jails those Egyptians who
> > monitor
> its human rights situation.
> > 
> > The issue goes to the heart of the mid-east conflict. The biggest
> > problem obstructing progress is the lack of "accountability" among
> > the leaders of those arab nations who have determined to use Israel
> > and the presence of Jews in the region to distract their own
> > populations as well as the rest of the world from their totalitarian
> > ways. There is an undeniable double standard at play here, and it
> > shades the debate in a fundamentally dishonest way (and no, I do not
> > accuse you of doing so here).....
> > 
> > 
> > love,
> > cfa
> > 
> > 
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