Eliade & Boyarin

[Paul Mackin]

I'd always felt that the cyclic vs linear distinction breaks down in the
case of Christianity--in that Christianity (at least)  IS cyclical, except
that it's a cycle of ONE revolution. Conception, birth, life, death,
resurrection of the body.

Just a random thought.

            P.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Monroe" <davidmmonroe at yahoo.com>
To: "Terrance" <lycidas2 at earthlink.net>; <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Eliade & Boyarin


> Speaking of Eliade, not to mention of those damned
> church fathers and their linear history, had occasion
> some time back to post at length from ...
>
> Smith, Jonathan Z.  "A Slip in Time Saves Nine:
>    Prestigious Origins Again."  Chronotypes:
>    The Construction of Time.  Ed. John Bender and
>    David E. Wellbery.  Stanford, CA: Stanford UP,
>    1991.  67-76
>
> E.g. ...
>
> "... it is long overdue that we set aside the notion
> of 'nature mythology' that is at the heart of the
> mischievous distinction bewteen 'mythic' (i.e.
> cyclical) cults and 'historical' religions.  Such a
> notion is based on the old, inadequate idea of myth as
> bad science." (pp. 70-1)
>
> "Both the cyclical and linear models of time employed
> ... under the influence of the Protestant myth reduce
> 'difference' to a discourse of the 'same.'  The
> cyclical model does so by insisting on a notion of
> repetition that is held to be either inherently
> meaningless (as in Metzger) or meaningful because it
> is wholly congruent with its exemplar, that is to say
> because it lacks difference (as in Eliade).  The
> linear model does so by reducing history to a
> succession of meaningless events, identical to one to
> the other unless interrupted by or directed toward a
> supramundane telos.  By viewing the sacred as 'other'
> and the profane as the 'same,' the bulk of studies in
> religion have eliminated the complex middle ground of
> thought about 'difference' where myth and ritual
> live."
> (p. 76)
>
> http://waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l&month=0008&msg=48508&sort=date
>
> http://waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l&month=0008&msg=48509&sort=date
>
> Which is both explicitly to call into question
> Eliade's, and, implicitly, Boyarin's, distinctions
> here.  Which, of course, is hardly to call into
> question Eliade's influence on Pynchon (and I included
> Bernstein's Boyarin quote precisely because I figured
> it might be of interest here), although, of course,
> one might take issue with either on any given subject.
>  But, as always, I apreciate that influence just being
> identified in the first place, so ...
>
> A personal favorite work on all this, however, is ...
>
> Wilcox, Donald J.  The Measure of Times Past:
>    Pre-Newtonian Chronologies and the Rhetoric of
>    Relative Time.  Chicago: U of Chicago P, 1989.
>
> Which maybe I'll get to deploy as well in, er, good
> time ...
>
> --- Terrance <lycidas2 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > Pynchon read Eliade's books and they seem to have
> > influenced him quite a lot.  But your right, he's
> > hardly the final authority in interpreting religion
> > of anything else.
> >
> > Boyarin could be right. I don't know, just adding an
> > opposing view from a source we know Pynchon made use
> > of is all.
>
>
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