Various & sundry

[barbara100 at jps.net]

Barbara said:
> >They have more money there[SA], but the average citizen has far fewer
> >freedoms than one does in Iran.

Quail said:
> Well, perhaps before you make a statement such as SA being second
> only to the Taliban regarding Fundamentalist repression, perhaps you
> *should* "know a little" about the country. SA is hardly a paradise
> by western standards, and they are certainly corrupt and repressive,
> but they are not a fundamental Islamic theocracy.

> I would like to see some of your facts and figures on this one!
> But it is true that Iran has loosened up a but lately,
> let's hope that
 > Khatami can hold it together.


Well, I didn't want to have to drag my personal life into things to prove my
stupid point, but what the hey.
I was married to an Iranian for 13 years, and he'd been to Haj at least
twice before, and before me he was married to a girl from Saudi Arabia.  I
also spent 2 months myself in Iran in 1993, so I can offer some first-hand
information. And over the years, I've heard numerous stories about both
cultures and countries.  But as a wee girl of 18, I learned that Saudi
Arabia was the most repressive hard-core Islamic society on earth.  Until
the Taliban, that is, but they weren't around then. Now, I don't know if
Saudi Arabia could technically be called a Theocracy, but I don't see why
not.  Their penal and civil codes come straight out of the Koran (in their
modern, Saudi-style interpretation, of course).  I don't know them all, but
some of the ones that stuck in my mind are 1) Women can't drive 2) Women
can't go out into public unescorted by a male relative (cousins and uncles
don't count!)  2) No drinking alcohol (not sure about smoking opium, but
probably a No there too)  3) Doubt you can buy a pig meat on the whole
peninsula.  4) Women have to wear 'hejab' in public places (scarves for
sure, but more likely 'chadors,' those huge sheet-like things they wrap
around themselves so only their eyes peep out.  ( I couldn't go into the
inside the Esfahani mosque 'cause I didn't have one of those.)
Five.....five......5)  If you get caught stealing they lop off a hand or
something. 6) If you get caught committing adultery, oh, something awful. 7)
If you get caught whoring, death for sure.  No lethal injections either.
Hangings, beheadings and stonings.

Iran is almost as bad,  but women can be fully licensed to drive at least.
And they can vote, and go outside without their fathers and brothers. I
ventured out alone one day and nobody bothered me...except for a few boys
who'd never seen a white woman before, and a shop owner who stopped me to
ask why I would visit his dumpy little country when I had a beautiful golden
one for myself.  "Iran, bad.  Go back to Amrika. Amrika good. I love to go
Amrika. Vill you marry me?"  I'd hardly call that bothering, though.

My ex-husband told me his Saudi ex-wife got a $1400 dollar a month pension
from the SA government back in the 80s.  I believe he said every citizen was
entitled to some kind of pension.  Hers may have been more being a foreign
student here in America. At any rate, that led me to believe Saudi is a much
richer country than Iran. During my time there, I saw a government that
gives virtually nothing to the people and taxes mercilessly.  Their economy
and their people have been suffering for a long time.

Is any of this enough for you? I'm sorry I can't site some reputable news
source for you, but I still think Saudi Arabia is the second most repressive
Muslim society on earth, next only to the Taliban.

See, in a way, I did know a little bit about the countries before I spoke.

I'm sure you're right about Saudi Arabia repressing their fundamentalists
groups, though. I might have heard something like that recently too.  I
can't help but wonder though, do they do it to secure their own internal
Power, or to appease their red, white and blue Master?





----- Original Message -----
From: The Great Quail <quail at libyrinth.com>
To: <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:50 PM
Subject: Various & sundry