Calling people nazis and fascists and misogynists

[Paul Mackin]

Phil--no I don't see anything wrong with taking my post as an opportunity to
speak on the subject. I did want to make the point that up to about two
years ago there seemed no sign that something like what has happened would
happen.

            P.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Wise" <philwise at paradise.net.nz>
To: "Paul Mackin" <paul.mackin at verizon.net>; <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: Calling people nazis and fascists and misogynists


> except, except... Doug's been under almost ceaseless attack since I
started
> reading y'all (well over six months ago); the situation's far more complex
> than you're making out.  I'm afraid that at the moment he's started
treating
> every voice almost as one (I've found Quail absolutely reasonable, and a
> number of others, yourself included, that espouse views I don't agree
with,
> have taught me things and made me think).  But you can't have been reading
> this list and not have noted the jaded regularity of the behaviour
patterns
> around here, or that there is often one constant target.  Not for
refutation
> and debate but for abuse, and as some participants have admitted, abuse
for
> the sheer fun of it.  Bullying.
>
> I have to apologise you you, Paul, because it is your post that I'm
finally
> breaking silence to, and that may not be appropriate because you've never
> been a participant in any major way.  And I should apologise to Doug
before
> noting that he could protect himself more by engaging in debate when it is
> offered in good faith.  And perhaps it is ancient history that induces
> people to read the worst into any old slightly ambiguous construction.
Me,
> I would have walked away long ago.  I too have found Doug a frustrating
> presence recently, but - history lesson forthcoming from Doug or Terrence
> about who might have started what namecalling back when, undoubtedly,
> notwithstanding - people under siege often lose perspective, become a
little
> strident, especially if they believe (not unreasonably) that part of the
> reason they are being attacked is for the beliefs they espouse.  To me,
this
> is the context.
>
> I'm one of the crowd that could do without the conflict.  Others get right
> into it, often including the baitee.  But don't let's pretend this is
> happening in a vacuum here, okay?
>
> phil
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Mackin" <paul.mackin at verizon.net>
> To: <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 8:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Calling people nazis and fascists and misogynists
>
>
> > Oddly, Doug's p-list participation once appeared quite normal, evenly
> > praiseworthy. It was only a couple years ago that the violence  began to
> > appear. One may remember the accusations of Holocaust Denial where
> complete
> > cognitive breakdown was evident. The posts began to sound desperate.
Like
> > those "Hail Mary" plays football teams (American football) resort to
when
> > they get behind a few touchdowns and feel they have nothing to lose.
> > Something happened. We will probably never know what.
> >
> >         P.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <MalignD at aol.com>
> > To: <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 9:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: Calling people nazis and fascists and misogynists
> >
> >
> > > << Not that the list needs any more cheerleaders, but I think Quail
has
> > been
> > >  more than decent and patient beyond measure in all his responses to
the
> > >  list-scourge named Doug. >>
> > >
> > > It should be obvious by now that the man is a crackpot.  An "on-line
> > > journalist"?  A journalist of any sort?  Does he strike anyone as
> > > journalistic?   As professional?  As even attempting to be objective?
> > >
> > > God knows who he is or what he actually does, besides sit in his
bedroom
> > and
> > > glom the internet.  I think he's quite unbalanced and there is ample
> > evidence
> > > on this list to prove it.
> > >
> > > Pity his wife and child.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>