some thoughts on day 1

Wed Sep 12 18:14:05 CDT 2001

Umm.. well...  I posted this to another group that is far less well versed
in history, politics and those vanishing lines into the Mnemonick Deep.
Yeah there are holes and the semantics could possibly set this group off in
unintended directions.  Bear in mind I simplified and ommitted a lot of
things in the interest of its intended audience, er... which wasn't you
folks.  But its an answer to the below question. At least what I see as the
idealistic motivation for US support of Israel.  The portions in quotation
are from the message I was responding to.

As far as the US "choosing sides in the mideast conflict and sticking its
nose in everyone else's business, we wouldn't have been a target for
terrorism. If you support the US's actions in the mideast, consider
yesterday's events the price of those actions."  The price paid by the U.S.
is the price billed overall to the West for the horrors of WWII. While the
Germans were killing Jews, everybody else was rejecting boatloads of their
refugees.  Rail lines in Germany and Poland were left intact by Allied
bombers  in order to keep potential transport routes active after victory,
even though there was very clear evidence that those lines were used to move
people to their deaths.  After liberation of the camps, the realization of
the absolute depravity of these places crystalized.  These were crimes of
the SS and Germany as a whole, but responsibility really fell on Europe and
North America as a whole. Thus, perhaps in recognition of this, Britain
decreed the creation of Israel in the "Balfour Declaration" after the war
(47 I think).
The consequences of this have been dire for all the people who live in the
former Palestine.  Nevertheless, from the very start of the state of Israel,
the Arab states have sought to wipe out the Jews that had suddenly taken
possession of Palestine.  This is exactly what would happen if the US
removed its patronage, yet it continues to honor a percieved debt incurred
during the
second world war.  This debt should also be honored more vehemently by the
rest of Europe, but European governments have been effete and venal for a
thousand years.  Not chosing sides in the Mid east means the end of Israel
and a defaulting on the debt to Jews owed because of the Holocaust.  The
price paid yesterday was the latest installment that has included the end of
the most propsperous economic period (1945-73) in Western history, with the
OPEC oil embargo and resulting inflation and recession that has never really
been shaken off. The price includes the alienation of the entire Arab world,
meaning the loss
of important allies in the Cold War when that was important.  But I do go
on...

"They consider this a great military victory."  A military victory come with
the achievement of military aims against a militray enemy.  Weapons,
soldiers and materiel vs. weapons, soldiers and materiel.  Soldiers who kill
civillians deliberately and without warning are called war criminals and
tried for crimes against humanity.  Soldiers belong to armies and can be
idenitified on sight in action.  If these people called themselves soldiers,
that is surely as delusional as if they believe themselves in a place in
paradise.

"Your inability to comprehend their celebration underscores the country's
 lack of understanding of the situation in the mideast. Yesterday's actions
 will hopefully make more people aware of the consequences of our foreign
 policy."  The Palestinian crisis is criminal, but does not justify criminal
activity.  The US could be a strong supporter of the Palestinians, evidenced
by the strong push for a peace agreement in Israel against both govt's
wishes.  There are major flaws in the process and outcomes....
Nevertheless...   The Palestinian leadership for the last 25 years had
employed the same terror tactics, using children throwing stones and
brainwashing young men from birth to become suicide bombers and achieved
NOTHING!!!  They know their target is not only Israel, but the American
public in attacks and demonstrations in Gaza and West Bank, as seen in the
ample use of English in signs and chants.   They have gotten absolutley
nowhere.  5 years of passive resistance would have achieved the sympathy of
the American public long ago and forced Israel to compromise. See Gandhi.
The middle class of America would not tolerate daily pictures of Israeli
soldiers beating sitting chanting protester.  Destroying the World Trade
Center creates anger and unified national anger motivates a democracy to do
great and terrible things. See Japan and Germany (Dresden in paticular).  If
this attack is in any way traced to Palestinian groups, they can forget
about EVER having a homeland.  The term Palestinian will be history if that
happens,
and that is very sad.

----- Original Message -----
From: <barbara100 at jps.net>
To: <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 6:05 PM
Subject: RE: Re: some thoughts on day 1

> I fear the answer I'm gonna get, Manuel, but why do we support Israel?
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Manuel V. Cabrera Jr. mandelc at ucla.edu
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:20:29 -0700
> To: fqmorris at hotmail.com, herlahp at inet.uni2.dk, pynchon-l at waste.org
> Subject: Re: some thoughts on day 1
>
>
>     We should stop supporting Israel because it is a corrupt and
repressive
> government.  It's occupation of Palestinian territories is brutal: Gaza is
> surrounded by a giant barbed-wire fence; it is divided into sixty-some-odd
> communities themselves surrounded by fences; no Palestinian may pass from
one
> community to another without security checks, while Israel jews are
allowed free
> passage;  this latter fact has included ambulances carrying Palestinian
patients
> in ciritcal condition, resulting in numerous deaths;  the government of
Israel
> indiscriminantly kills, imprisons, and tortures Palestinians; it
> indiscriminantly siezes land and uproots the residents thereof, only to
build
> jewish settlements;  Palestinians are denied education on a regular basis
(e.g.
> all schools in the Gaza Strip being closed for three years during the
> nineties);  Palestinians are not allowed to own or lease land in Israel;
Israel
> chokes and starves the inhabitants of the occupied territories (e.g.,
while the
> vast majority of inhabitants in the occupied territories are Muslim
> Palestinians, eighty percent of the little public funding that goes into
those
> areas benefits the small minority of jewish settlers; Israel assasinates
> peaceful Palestinian leaders, journalists and clerics without any
> accountability;  Israel covers this up through its infamous policy of
screening
> all materials gathered by any journalist.  It is nothing less than
apartheid.
> Why do you think the international community, with the sole exceptions of
the
> U.S. and Israel, have universally condemned Israel since the conquest of
the
> occupied territories in 1967, starting with U.N. 242 and followed by
dozens upon
> dozens of U.N. resolutions thereafter?  THAT is why we should end support
of
> Israel.
>
>         mandel cabrera
>
> David Morris wrote:
>
> > I guess we should just back away from Israel now that we know how MAD
some
> > terrorists are at us...  Is that your suggestion?
> >
> > >From: Arne Herløv Petersen
> > >
> > >Feeling revengeful is natural, but I think it would be wiser to stifle
that
> > >impulse. In stead of learning from Northern Ireland and Israel and
> > >retaliating - and get into ever widening loops of revenge and
retaliation -
> > >it might be better to learn from South Africa and try to get on with
our
> > >lives somehow.
> >
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