NP "racist" Tolkien?

[jbor]

on 28/12/02 5:22 AM, Dave Monroe at davidmmonroe at yahoo.com wrote:

> Well, which way do you want it, then?  "Racist"--or,
> more accurately, reproducisng racisms--or no?

It's your argument. If _TLOTR_ is "racist", transmits "racist" values etc
(whatever euphemistic phrasing you want to apply - I think Shapiro stated
fairly baldly that it was "racist"), then I find the "but there's no need to
worry about that" caveat quite odd. It's not one which Shapiro endorses, as
far as I can make out.

> "Insidiously."  Word choice.  Again ... no, my point
> all along has been, point these things out, be aware
> of them, keep them in mind, discuss them, critique
> them, whatever.  

Is it at all conceivable to you that _TLOTR_ isn't "racist", doesn't
reproduce (inscribe, represent, present ... whatever) "racisms". Which has
been my point all along in noticing, discussing and critiquing this
contention. 

But I think, and you can correct me if I'm wrong on this, that the issue
isn't so much what's in the text itself but a question of what constitutes
"racism". In my opinion, attempting to reduce an understanding of "race(s?)"
to some black v. white polarity leaves out over half the world's population
in the first place anyway (talk about marginalising yr Other/s!) - and I'm
not sure that it's Tolkien who is guilty of doing this. Further, colour
symbolism isn't necessarily or always racist. Cf. Night/day. Light/darkness.
Checkerboards. Chessmen. Yin yang. Etc. All not "racist" as far as I'm
concerned.

> But don't stop reading.  Excise all
> the racism 

OK. Censorship. So which parts of _TLOTR_, exactly, would you expurgate. Let
us know ....

> and sexism and classism and homophobia and
> xenophobia and ... and ... and, well, I don't know
> what would even be left.  Face up to yr legacy.  We
> should have learned that by now here.

Again, the insinuation here (and at bottom) is that anyone who doesn't agree
with you is ignorant (or "uncritical").

best


> But nobody save
> maybe Shapiro has so far said taht either Tolkien or
> his texts are racist through and through.  He, they,
> did, do inscribe, reproduce, produce, maybe, even, I
> don't know, certain "racemes" or whatever.  Again,
> notice, discuss, critique ...
>
> 
> --- jbor <jbor at bigpond.com> wrote:
>> 
>> And another thing. I don't get this part of the
>> argument that says that even though _TLOTR_
>> is "racist", insidiously evoking and
>> promoting "racist" values or whatever, that that
>> doesn't really matter anyway, you can still be
>> a fan, and it's quite OK to let the kiddies along to
>> see it and not worry that they are going to absorb
>> (i.e., that "*Rezeptionsaesthetik*" thang) all
>> this negative ideology. As if transmitting these
>> allegedly "racist" values and attitudes to
>> impressionable young people isn't something which
>> is important enough to care about?
> 
> "But what about the children?" goes up the shrill
> soccer-mom (my own classism/sexism there ...) cry.
> Me, I'm more worried about uncritical adults these
> days than "impressionable" children ...
>