salesmandeath better than Vineland?

[Monica Belevan]

And then, Miller himself is torn to joyous, weaving shreds on the modern 
American stage by:

a-  Eugene O´Neill, whom I don´t especially like, but respect. ´´ Mourning 
Becomes Electra´´ and ´´ The Iceman Cometh´´ compensate for ´´Desire Under 
The Elms´´ and    ´´ A Strange Interlude´´, thematically two very Pynchonian 
works which I think Pynchon could have, ideally, addressed more efficiently 
in prose form;

b-Tennessee Williams, surely the most incendiary, intense and provocatively 
humane dramatist of the American 20th century. If Dostoyevsky had set his 
heart on being a dramatist, as was his original intention, only he may have 
written as Tennessee did, before Tennessee did. Williams has a severe 
Ibsenian strength coupled to a nearly surreal lubricty.

--Monica

>From: "Tim Strzechowski" <dedalus204 at attbi.com>
>To: "Pynchon-L" <pynchon-l at waste.org>,   "lorentzen-nicklaus" 
><lorentzen-nicklaus at t-online.de>
>Subject: Re: salesmandeath better than Vineland?
>Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:11:50 -0500
>
>Oo-kay, I get the distinct impression you like _Vineland_ better??
>
>From: "lorentzen-nicklaus"
>
> >                         at least both are fruits ...
>
>But face it, a play and a novel are written for different purposes,
>difference audience expectations, different "timings," etc. A play by its
>nature (unless its a closet drama) is meant to be performed, not read. So 
>to
>accuse _DoaS_ of simplicity is to accuse it of something which, by its
>definition, it must possess to a certain degree if it is to be viewed by a
>live audience, not read and reread by a reader for analysis.
> >
> >
> >    yet does the play have acid, japan, crypto-humans, sado-masochism,
>encouters
> >    with the dead or sharp political satire? i also think that pynchon's
>view on
> >    women (only in this book, btw) is more adequate than miller's.
>actually,
> >    vineland is written from a female perspective: frenesi the heroine.
>
>No, it has cigarettes, New England, football, a mistress . . . and
>encounters with the dead. Satire isn't Miller's intent, but that's not to
>say there isn't humor in the play. And although the women in Miller don't
>seem to be prominent figures, I think his women (Linda, the mistress, the
>girls, the secretary) help convey a social commentary not only for the time
>period, but for the general role of women in American society.
> >
>
> >   yet if i'd had to choose between the two books now, my vote would
> >   always go the much more ambivalent vineland. gives me more to think. 
>and
>to
> >   feel. though it will never reach salesmandeath' canonical status (the
>play
> >   appears even in 'alf'), and though it's not as good as "gravity's
>rainbow",
> >   "der zauberberg" or "blood meridian", i personlly like vineland very
>much.
> >   maybe this has to do with the fact that i was born in the 60's second
>half
> >   into which i thus have an ongoing and passionate interest.
>
>Yes, _Vineland_ is ambivalent. And ambivalence is necessary in the context
>of that particular novel, and the themes it conveys, and the characters it
>portrays. I wouldn't go so far as to say _Salesman_ is ambivalent too, but
>there are elements of the play that cannot entirely be resolved (like the
>role of Ben in the play, for instance). Maybe the ambivalence comes with
>life experience, though. Ten years ago I might have agreed with you on
>Miller; with a son now at my side here, my perspective on certain literary
>works has changed significantly, this being one of them.  Go figure.
>
>And in ways you hit it on the head: an ongoing and passionate interest. If
>your interests lie in the subject matter, of course you'll prefer that
>matter to something else, and that can't really be argued.  As a fellow
>child of the Sixties (b. 1966), I too find literature and topics of that
>time period fascinating. Far from being a "loser," Biff is a precursor to
>the type of young man that would eventually become a Jack Kerouac --
>decidedly nonconformist, physical, "poetic," romantic, and mobile. _Death 
>of
>a Salesman_ gives us the Beat figure in its infancy. A child of the Sixties
>can surely appreciate that.
>
> >
> >   me is, by the way, pretty glad that we never read pynchon at
>high-school. what
> >   we did - the guy teaching hadn't had invented the wheel or anything 
>but
>knew
> >   which books to celebrate - was shakespeare (romeo & juliet, macbeth)
>orwell,
> >   shaw, eliot, salinger (catcher), miller, albee, williams (tennessee, 
>not
>sweet
> >   serena), fitzgerald & kesey's cuckoo's nest. i also insisted on 
>william
>blake.
> >
> > later, kai
>
>Sounds like you read some awesome stuff there!  Cool!
>
>Tim




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