decadanse bis

alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr
Wed Jul 10 16:08:24 CDT 2002


hey monikuh

well i agree with what you say, i was just pointing out that when you
look into it, there is a difference between poètes maudits and
parnassians and symbolists. If mallarmé and verlaine are
 related to parnasse, they were mavericks (as opposed to dull
 parnassians like, say, gautier)  and ducasse sure
couldn't be related to any of those parisian circles. could it be
that we secretly agree but still anjoy playing the very french sport of "couper
les cheveux en quatre", monique?

gregory

MB> Yes, Gregorovius, but if we are going to reduce everything ad absurdum ad 
MB> nauseam, then we better discuss Husserl and solipsism, or ourobouros, or 
MB> algebraic reversibilities.

MB> I appreciate the link, I´ll fish through it soon. Perhaps the system in 
MB> France is different; however, in the chronology of literary history, the 
MB> peak manifestations of the decadent spirit are set in the 
MB> Parnassian-Symbolist intervals. It´s not set in stone, Gregor, but it´s 
MB> fairly consensual.

MB> --Monica


>>From: alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr
>>Reply-To: alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr
>>To: pynchon-l at waste.org
>>Subject: la décadanse
>>Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:48:06 +0200
>>
>>hey monica,
>>
>>décadence (or anything, for that matter) can be traced back forever, you 
>>know, if you want to go
>>there. you're the one who mentioned it in relation to the
>>"poètes maudits" and the 19th century, so i was just pointing out that here 
>>it's not
>>really what we understand by décadents, but something more specific,
>>but that's ok monica, and i actually know what you mean (and agree) but we 
>>just
>>don't use the same terms, you see. In France. Not my fault. No
>>affectation here or whatever. That's how we learn about it. I swear. Check 
>>this out for
>>example (i don't know if you read french): 
>>http://www.bmlisieux.com/curiosa/jtellier.htm
>>Get my point?
>>oh and please, when you're done looking down on me, dear, could you start
>>spelling my name right?
>>thank you
>>
>>Grégory (not Grégoire, i used to beat people up for that one...
>>just kidding(i figure i should make that clear, seeing how natural
>>humor is around here...)!)
>>MB> Gregoire-- ´´decadentism´´, is, in fact, the art of supreme 
>>affectation, and
>>MB> if you are merely picking at the smaller threads and timelines you only 
>>have
>>MB> part of the picture. More than decadent art ( a contradcition in terms,
>>MB> perhaps?), there is a decadent cosmovision. That is precisely what
>>MB> Parnassians, Symbolists and even French proto-Surrealists like 
>>Lautreamont
>>MB> share, that special disposition, that agriculture of spleen. The term 
>>itself
>>MB> is English and was coigned by Baudelaire, who set the definitive 
>>antecedent
>>MB> for this form of aestheticism. If you trace it further back, you shall
>>MB> discover a rich Gothic influence as well. Abridging the decandent 
>>esprit to
>>MB> schools and petit comites, however, testifies to your own affectation, 
>>and
>>MB> fails to do much justice to it´s historical import in the 
>>reconstruction of
>>MB> aesthetics.
>>MB> This was all discussed to some extent in recent p-list postings, ´´ The
>>MB> Aesthetics of Ugliness´´.
>>
>>MB> David-- I don´t have either M&D or V. with me, so it is impossible for 
>>me to
>>MB> address you an answer as punctually as I would like to. No less, I was
>>MB> referring to a more global atmosphere to Pynchon´s texts. To reading 
>>the
>>MB> Pynchon that Paul likes to read, he´s the Pynchon I like best as well. 
>>And
>>MB> your quotations testify to this. If you read them, as they are, you 
>>will
>>MB> notice that V.´s intrinsic polyhedric architecture makes of Decadence 
>>an x
>>MB> variable, a term of multipe acceptations, and shifting affectations as 
>>well.
>>MB> One of the quotations, in fact, even points to a particular vitality in
>>MB> decadence:
>>
>>MB> ´´This sort of arranging and rearranging was Decadence, but the 
>>exhaustion
>>MB> of all possible permutations and combinations was death." 298
>>
>>MB> I do not believe we disagree.
>>
>>MB> Love, Monica
>>
>>
>>
>>MB> _________________________________________________________________
>>MB> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>>MB> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Best regards,
>>  alfredjprufrock                            
>>mailto:alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr




MB> _________________________________________________________________
MB> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



-- 
Best regards,
 alfredjprufrock                           
mailto:alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr





More information about the Pynchon-l mailing list