Weber--sin and capital

[David Morris]

>From: MalignD at aol.com
>
>Lycidas:
>
<<The "good works" of the Quakers or more generally the "Calling" of 
Protestants to do good in the world, is a product of the reformation and is 
not present in Catholic theology or Christian Antiquity. There is no need or 
desire to do good in this world for a Catholic. because he is not interested 
in this world, this mundane existence. The opposite is true for the 
Protestant. Moreover, any sin that a Catholic commits can be gotten rid of 
by his going to the medicine man or father confessor. Not so for the 
Protestant, who not only accumulates wealth in this world, does good works 
in this world--accumulates moral goodness or evil but accumulates sins. The 
cycle, the life and death cycle of sin, repentance, forgiveness, found in 
religions from Catholicism to Native American religions to African 
religions, is absent from Protestantism and the accumulation of wealth is 
morally sanctioned, provided, of course, it is combined with a sober, 
industrious, life and not to support the luxurious and conspicuous 
consumptions of self-indulgent hedonists like the Pope and the Jesuits.>>
>
>This is hopelessly muddled

Yes, it is.

>Fundamental to Luther's break with the Catholic church was disagreement 
>with the idea of good works.  The Catholic church allowed for variable 
>relationships to God--those of laymen, priests, and monks--based on works, 
>with relative rewards and punishments, purgatory as well as hell.  Luther 
>rejected this entirely.  He believed humankind so hopelessly distant from 
>God that a lifetime of good works wouldn't justify salvation.
>
>Luther insisted there are no degrees of separation from God.  One has a 
>relationship with God or one does not.  There is simply faith and grace and 
>it is paradoxical:  one is worthy although one is unworthy.  Merit has no 
>role, only acceptance.  Faith through grace.

One should also bear in mind that the whole of creation was viewed by Luther 
to be inherently corrupt as a result of the Fall.  Satan was understood by 
Luther to be the "god of this world," and no achievement of man was thought 
to be holy.  Ultimately Luther rejected everything in this world (including 
money - which he equated with excrement) in favor of the next one.  This is 
in sharp contrast to what would eventually be called the protestant work 
ethic, which Maligned further explains below.  This is also in sharp 
contrast to Terrance's analysis that "There is no need or desire to do good 
in this world for a Catholic. because he is not interested in this world, 
this mundane existence. The opposite is true for the Protestant."

Also Terrance's conception of {"good works" of the Quakers or more generally 
the "Calling" of Protestants to do good in the world} is not a universally 
accepted protestant doctrine.  It is by no means a central Protestant 
doctrine.  And Quakers were by no means in the mainstream of Protestantism.  
The only "good works" central to Protestantism is the preaching of the Word 
of God whereby others may receive salvation.  Missionary good works were 
only a means to that greater end.

>One should bear in mind when speaking of Protestantism that it is not a 
>singular entity like Catholicism.  The place of work derives not from 
>Luther, rather from Calvin, and it is fundamentally different from the 
>Catholic idea.
>  Calvin had no disagreement with Luther around the idea of faith through 
>grace, rather with what one did once united with God.  For Luther, reunion 
>was joyous.  For Calvin, it was a calling to new life to be given over to 
>serving and glorifying God.  Calvin believed God best served by hard work, 
>sobriety, temperance and chastity,  but one was not in so living working 
>one's way an inch closer to God or earning a place in Heaven.

Interesting point, above.  An emphasis on "hard work, sobriety, temperance 
and chastity" seems somewhat compatible with Luther's rejection of the world 
as a corrupt/corrupting place, but the resulting wealth would not be.

Calvin's biggest claim to fame his concept of the "Elect,"
a taking Luther's idea of grace a step further.  He concluded that to 
accept/believe (and thus receive) God's grace was in itself a "good work," 
and was thus incompatible with salvation being purely by God's grace.  God, 
therefore, had to predestinate those who would eventually believe: the 
Elect.

1Pe 1:2   Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through 
sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of 
Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

>One consequence of this was an accumulation of wealth in many German 
>Calvinist communities.  Opposed to ostentation and sumptuous living, Calvin 
>counseled investment of that wealth, increasing production, etc.  It is 
>here that the so-called Protestant ethic dovetails with capitalism and it 
>is this that Weber commented on.




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