MDDM Ch. 54 historiographic metafiction

[Otto]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Ryckx" <michel.ryckx at freebel.net>
To: <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: MDDM Ch. 54 historiographic metafiction


> Is your conclusion, Otto, based on this paragraph not a bit far-reaching?
As I
> read it, "thus controlling the very stuff of History" at 530 has nothing
to do
> with history as science.
>

No! Either this book is postmodern or a waste of time, merely anecdotes.
It's not about partiality, not quantity but quality.

You say: "controlling the very stuff of History (...) has nothing to do with
history as science." I say that if the "stuff of History" can be controlled
the idea of History as science in general is absurd.

>
> The idea of controlling one's knowledge over the past
> is not the historian's view; it is the view held (even now) by those in
> control, as you wrote.  And it is the Wolf of Jezus who "understands".
However
> poor our knowledge of the past, it is better than to have no knowledge.
And
> there aren't any historians left who claim to have an absolute truth over
the
> past.  They know their view is partial.
>
>
> Otto wrote:
>
> > The Usual Tragedy
> >
> > 530.13-15, 19-20
> > "But then the Spaniard may see an opportunity to remove certain
memories,
> > and substitute others,-- thus controlling the very Stuff of
History.(...)
> > The Wolf of Jesus, perhaps never aware that Lies and Truth will converge
> > (...)."
> >
>
> The phrase goes on: "albeit far from this place", which implicates the
> characters here can make a difference between lies and truth at this given
> place and time in the novel. (gosh, I'm already applying Robert's method
of
> reading)
>

Of course, in our times.

> > Compare this to Wicks' "Christ and History" on p. 349. History, the idea
> > that through looking back in time we could gain any objective knowledge
of
> > the past, is one of the three meta-fictions deconstructed by
postmodernism.
>
> This quote at p. 349 has puzzled me for a long time.  But the idea of "a
great
> disorderly  Tangle of Lines" is exactly what a historian now is aware of.
The
> problem I have is with the use of the word "Destination" at 348.12.  The
> Reverend of course has no problem with that: the idea of history --or
rather
> mankind-- having a Destination, was common in the 18th century; Hegel made
a
> brilliant career out of it.  And it is consistent with Wick's remark at p.
75:
>
> "Brae, your Cousin proceeds unerringly to the Despair at the Core of
History,
> --and the Hope.  As Savages commemorate their great Hunts with Dancing, so
> History is the Dance of our Hunt for Christ, and how we have far'd."
>
> [note the capitals used here]
>
> I agree with public domain's remark earlier this week it is impossible to
> distill the way mr. Pynchon thinks about the value of history if we only
have
> some remarks of the Reverend.  But the ideas of the reverend on history
are
> clear: there's a destination, there's hope, and despair.  And there are
those
> lines, all intertwined:  a gradual knotting into? (haha)
>

It's not about Mr. Pynchon's religious belief (which I am not interested
in), it's about God, History and Logos, the three meta-fictions
deconstructed by postmodernism and this & other fictions.

>
> You know that I hardly know a thing about postmodernism.
>

Very sorry about that. It explains a lot in Pynchon's fiction.

>  But historians did
> not need pomo to realise their science is very limited.  Apart from
remarks
> through the centuries (even Tacitus talked about it: he was constantly
> frustrated by the lack of reliable sources), the French school around
> 'Annales', and Marc Bloch, have been studying these problems thoroughly.
This
> was during the twenties and thirties of the previous century.
>

It's not about sources. The idea of a "reliable source" is a fake already.
There are no un-ideological memories, thus the whole idea of an "objective
truth" mus be dismissed.

> By the way, the concept of metafiction --bad language to mix up Greek and
latin
> words-- remains a bit hazy to me.
>

I's a typical postmodern hybrid, fits very well.

>
> > "Those in power control history."
> > Linda Hutcheon, _A Poetics of Postmodernism_, Routledge 1988.
>
> > Otto
>
> Kind regards (and see you in Cologne),
>
> Michel.
>