Any Rand

[jbor]

on 23/10/02 9:56 AM, Michael Kenny at mikenny79 at hotmail.com wrote:
> 
> I disagree with you on this myself.  I think racial preferences today
> overlook the causes and effects of racism.  Whenever you give one group more
> priveleges than another, white or black or whatever, you create racial
> animosity.  It doesn't help black people today when people think "So-and-so
> got that job because he or she is black, or a woman."  When you earn
> something in this society as a black person, you might frequently find that
> people automatically think you didn't earn it, but got your position based
> on some consideration of your race.  I don't think anyone should make that
> assumption about anyone groundlessly, but unfortunately, it happens.  That
> doesn't help minorities at all.  It also doesn't help anyone, be you a
> trust-funder who got into a university because of your family name, or a
> minority student who got in based on racial considerations, if you can't
> keep up with the other students who earned their way into the school based
> on their academic performance.

I understand this, and agree with it in some instances, and it is certainly
part of Ayn Rand's general screed. But it overlooks the fact that
institutional racism has been the direct cause of economic, social,
educational and other types of disadvantage for certain (racial) groups. It
isn't a level playing field to begin with, all the contenders aren't
"equal", they can't even begin to access the same privileges, and so the
subsidies, grants, special considerations etc etc are often necessary to
achieve equity of opportunity for individuals from these groups.

>> 
>> She constantly invokes this dichotomy of the "primitive" and "savage"
>> versus
>> the "civilised" and "rational". It's the dichotomy she sets up which
>> derives
>> from suprematist, or racist, ideology, regardless of who she applies it to.
> 
> That doesn't make any sense.  How can she be racist if she isn't basing her
> judgment of what's rational or civilized (these two terms likely mean the
> same thing to Ayn Rand) on race?

It's implicit in the dichotomy. She's setting up a cultural hierarchy. In
her view, Western culture and society, as she defines it, is superior to
non-Western culture. That's a form of racism.

> Because she thinks it discourages thinking, not because of the color of
> someone's skin.
> 
>> The inference
>> is that those who compose, perform and/or enjoy this type of music are also
>> inferior.
> 
> Because they are avoiding thinking, not because of the color of their skin.

I think our disagreement stems from the fact that your definition of
"racism" is a very narrow one. Overt racism on the the basis of skin colour
is only one aspect. Racism is "an ideology that gives expression to myths
about other racial and ethnic groups, that devalues and renders inferior
those groups, that reflects and is perpetrated by deeply rooted historical,
social, cultural and power inequalities in society." (Human Rights and Equal
Opportunity Commission, 1998)

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/d_minori.htm

>> She's anti-hippie, anti-mysticism, anti-abstract art and
>> anti-"Dionysian" as well, of course, but all of her aesthetic prejudices
>> are
>> based on a notion of the inherent superiority of Western culture and
>> society, of "rationalism".
> 
> But Western culture contains hippies, mysticism, and abstract art.  I won't
> disagree that Rand liked great Western thinkers like Aristotle, but she also
> lauded mathematics, (algebra came from Arabs).  I don't think she thought
> there was some racial superiority of western people.  She's explicit about
> that in her reference to the black genius or the German moron.  She's also
> critical of things that sprang from Western culture, like communism and the
> pseudo-scientific racism of the nineteenth century.  Western culture has
> contained some of the most beneficial and also some of the most destructive
> ideas that have ever been unleashed on mankind (certainly a Pynchonian
> theme).

I think that there is an enormous ideological chasm between the Pynchonian
take on these issues and the Rand view. The parody of Rand in the
characterisation of Mafia Winsome in _V._ makes this pretty clear imo.

>>>> I've got a hazy recollection that one of the most vilified characters
>> in
>>>> _Atlas Shrugged_ is African-American, and one of the most pathetic is
>>>> Jewish, though I could be misremembering.
>>> Could be.  I haven't read the book.  But in the context of this
>> quotation
>>> cited below, I think it would be unfair to think Rand was saying "All
>> blacks
>>> or all Jews are like this, because I portrayed one character of that
>> group as
>>> a dumb or immoral person."
>> 
>> The impression I have is that these were the only characters from those
>> ethnic backgrounds in the book, or in any of her books. I could be mistaken
>> on this, however ....
>> 
>> Perhaps "rabid" was the wrong adjective, though I do find her cultural
>> prejudices, and the way she trumpets them, quite deplorable. Perhaps
>> "latent" is the more apt term.
> 
> I thought of something and wanted to check it out: Rand's real name was
> Alissa Rosenbaum and she came from a Russian Jewish family.  That doesn't
> mean she wasn't anti-semetic, but you'd have to make the difficult case that
> she's a self-loathing Jew.

Well, no, I haven't said anything like this, but I think it's quite telling
that she renounced both her Jewish name and faith. Her extreme intolerance
of religion is another aspect of the overall racist complexion of her
"philosophy". Imo.

It's been an interesting and relevant discussion. Thanks. And MalignD's
"Randoid" parody has been the funniest thing I've read in months. Bravo!

best