antw. Re: Pointsman's obvious point ain't so obvious

[lorentzen-nicklaus]

tessy schrieb:

> --- David Gentle 
>
>
>  One of the more
> > > > obvious points in GR is that the V2 attacks,
> > > > unlike tomahawks, are random.

> I disagree. It's not  an obvious point in GR that the
> V2 attacks are random.


> The randomness and the fear
> that they could land where they were not pointed is
> quite real, but one of the most obvious and important
> ambiguities in the novel, is the one about the
> randomness / percision of the V2 attacks, the rockets,
> THE ROCKET, etc.


  here pynchon was probably influenced by the aphorism of adorno i recently   
  hinted you at. you may have another look --- kfl

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 in chapter 33 of "minima moralia", written in los angeles in late 1944, adorno 
 has an aphorism about the V-weapons, machines which he sees as paradigmatic for 
 the fascist spirit of the time because in their subjectless accuracy of aim   
 they combine superficial technical perfection with absolute blindness, deadly  
 terror with total futility: "hätte hegels geschichtsphilosophie diese zeit 
 eingeschlossen, so hätten hitlers robotbomben, neben dem frühen tod alexanders 
 und ähnlichen bildern, ihre stelle gefunden unter den ausgewählten empirischen 
 tatsachen, in denen der stand des weltgeistes unmittelbar sich ausdrückt. wie 
 der faschismus selber sind die robots lanciert zugleich und subjektlos. wie 
 jener vereinen sie die äußerste technische perfektion mit vollkommener 
 blindheit. wie jener erregen sie das tödliche entsetzen und sind ganz 
 vergeblich. --- 'ich habe den weltgeist gesehen', nicht zu pferde, aber auf 
 flügeln und ohne kopf, und das widerlegt zugleich hegels  
 geschichtsphilosophie." 

 "'i have seen the world-spirit', not on a horse [like napoleon to whom the   
 quote refers, kfl], yet on wings and without head, and this, at the same time, 
 disproves hegel's philosophy of history." as some of you know, hegel defined 
 history as "progress in the consciousness of freedom". oh well.... 

                                                                 KFL     


Dave Monroe schrieb:

> "As the Allies stepped up their air assaults following
> the Normandy landings, Germany countered with their
> intensified use of 'pilotless secret weapon planes,'
> as the Nazi Vergeltungswaffen-1 'buzz bombs' were
> called in this June 16, 1944, report. 

> Between June 13,
> 1944, and March 29, 1945, about 8,000 V-1s were
> launched against England, with nearly 2,500 hitting
> their targets."

  interestingly enough, lothar gruchmann (Totaler Krieg - vom blitzkrieg zur 
  bedingungslosen kapitulation, münchen 1991: dtv, here p. 163) says that the 
  V1s were only launched till early september because then the air-base at the 
  canal-coast was lost: from september 8 on, gruchmann says, it was exclusively 
  the new V2 that got launched against england (later also against brüssel, 
  antwerpen and lüttich). anyone for clarification? 

>
> http://www.umkc.edu/lib/spec-col/ww2/Dday/interrupt.htm#interrupt
>
> http://www.umkc.edu/lib/spec-col/ww2/main.htm
>
 
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> In fact, focusing on one character's
> view (Poinstman's, and, btw, his view is not static
> and is not quite as fixed from the beginning as you
> suggest) of the attacks, as you do in your analysis,
> seems to box out so much of the rich subversive
> postmodern detective paranoia and ambiguities of the
> novel. Is Roger correct? Does Pointsman hold to his
> Pavlovian views? Is he a true Pavlovian? Or has it got
> this Pavlovianism mixed in with Middle-aged (the irony
> here is generational, Pointsman as the excluded middle
> generation between Pudding and Roger)   and Middle
> ages magic (the mysterious Book, his role as the
> Knight salying the Minotaur etc.) and inverted
> Catholicism (Black mass)? Why is it Yang and Yin that
> he hears as goes mad? What has Pointy got sewn into
> his lab coats? 
>
>
> > >
> > You know I got the impression from somewhere
> > (possibly reading the book) that the whole
> > predictive
> > power of Slothrops sexual needs was something that
> > Pointsmen deluded himself about and that somehow
> > it was all a big mistake.
>
> Maybe. Maybe not. Did Slothrop make love to a girl
> named Darlene or not? 
>
> Pointsman is a Pavlovian Priest and Knight in search
> of the grail (logos--the word and the blood of Christ
> now become a plastic in the Gnosticized and Nazified
> world of Blicero). 
>  
> Yes, religion and science and magic can be quite a
> dangerous mixture. If you think I'm being too obscure
> here ask for the pages and passages and I'll provide
> them. 
>
> So, for example,  when Roger's Poisson's equation
> appears to be working people at Psi section begin to
> treat him like a prophet. At first, Pointsman excludes
> the middle, Roger's domain. He wants cause and effect.
> He's concerned that the younger generation (postWar)
> will put an end to history. So why does Pointsman need
> Roger? And what about the actual hits? Doesn't the
> novel raise the possibility that the V2 landed in
> particualr neighborhoods? And so on.....ambiguity and
> not much that is an obvious point. 
>