VLVL2 and NPPF: Cultural Elitism

[Paul Mackin]

On Sun, 2003-07-20 at 11:23, Tim Strzechowski wrote:
> I didn't think further introduction was needed because it derives from an
> earlier set of posts:
> 
> http://waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l&month=0307&msg=83068&sort=date
> http://waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l&month=0307&msg=83069&sort=date
> 
> I seem to recall some listers who were not interested in reading VL because
> they felt it lacked substance, relevance, etc. compared to P's other works.

Yes, there was this argument but also didn't many think the book had
already been discussed to death by the p-list. And some wanted time to
get over the experience of reading the foreword to 1984. That had been a
complete downer for me. Was it possible P is a bit of a loon? 

Of course many writers are hard to fathom in terms of their personal
preferences.



> I'd almost use their positions as a basis for this evaluation.
 
> 
> I associate cultural elitism with the critics of _Vineland_ who believe(ed)
> that the various and sundry pop culture references in the text do not serve
> a significance or, at best, convey mere nostalgia.  In this post, your
> question is valid because
> 
> a) what IS meant by "cultural elitism"?  What are the origins of this
> phrase?
> 
> b) does P's use of pop culture reflect a reduction in literary merit (on his
> part, as a writer), or *can* a work that relies heavily on pop culture
> references (as imagery, as metaphor, as symbol, etc.) be said to possess
> merit?

People weren't saying were they that the use of pop culture references
in itself would necessarily detract from a book's literary merit.
Wouldn't it depend on the skill of the writer.

Or put it this way. Are you assuming there is a distinguishable group of
people who don't want to even notice pop culture. Is this what cultural
elitism is? Such a group seems almost too far beyond the pale to
consider.

> 
> And, tying in PF, how does Nabokov address (or satirize?) the concept of
> "cultural elitism" in the "Foreward"?

I'm afraid I still don't "get" the question you are asking. 

Kinbote tells enough in the foreword for us to know he won't  pass the
family values test.

Later in the commentary we learn how scholars attending a language
conference at Wordsmith can't converse in the languages they are
supposed to be specializing in.  

Small town (even college town) customs are ridiculed. . Much as Humbert
does in Lolita.

While K finds Wordsworth life provincial and stifling he does profess to
following an organized religion. Unlike Shade who is an atheist more or
less.


Shade in the poem dislikes certain things associated with both the low
and the high brow. Also he belittles Eliot who back then was the epitome
of high culture. Pop references and all.

I'm not being much help I realize. Will give it some more thought.

P. 




> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Isn't some further introduction to this thread needed? What is cultural
> > elititism and who are the cultural elite? I associate the term with Dan
> > Quayle. The cultural elite are the small minority who don't bowl, don't
> > believe in God, live inside the Beltway, in Manhattan, Hollywood or
> > Berkeley. But what and who exactly are WE talking about here?
> >
> > P.
> >
> 
> 
>