unreliable? in Vineland (getting closer to an idea)

[Tim Strzechowski]

I  wrote:
>
> > part of what we call Pynchon's "style" stems from his
> > ability to weave formal diction (what jbor calls "conventional detached
> > narrative" and what MJ calls "austerely poetical diction") with informal
> > diction (what jbor calls "Zoyd's pov ... assimilated" and what MJ calls
> > "hipster vernacular"), and when this is done to the extent that it not
only
> > affects dialogue (obviously) but also the narrative "voice" (which
Pynchon
> > frequently adapts to the vernacular of a particular character in all his
> > fiction), this act of narration is blurred, blurred beyond mere
"reliable"
> > and "unreliable" labels.  Am I correct here?

jbor responded:
>
> I think you'll find that the diction doesn't change all that much. The
> phrase "rude updates" isn't really an example of "hipster vernacular", for
> example, and at that point the narrative voice is obviously detached from
> Zoyd's pov (because it's foreshadowing events which are yet to occur, and
> which Zoyd is unaware of - a form of prolepsis and dramatic irony, as
we've
> established). But at other points it's obviously inside Zoyd's pov, and
the
> way that the shifts back and forth appear to be seamless has a lot to do
> with Pynchon's style and language choices. I don't think labels like
> "reliable" and "unreliable" apply.
>
> On the whole, Pynchon's narrative voice mingles colloquial and more poetic
> registers, as in, say, the very first sentence of the novel ("drifted
awake
> in sunlight" cf. "stomping around on the roof"). This is stylistically
> consistent throughout the novel.
>

I can see you're trying to qualify what I've said, and I appreciate your
clarification, but you've basically supported all that I said, with one
exception:

> I think you'll find that the diction doesn't change all that much. The
> phrase "rude updates" isn't really an example of "hipster vernacular"
[...]

I know what you're saying, but I disagree.  Perhaps the phrase "rude
updates" isn't the purest example of "hipster vernacular," but the passage

"Was it ESP, was he only reacting to something in his friend's voice?
Somehow he knew who it would be [...] This time, though, it had been a
while, long enough that Zoyd had begun to hope the man might've found other
meat and be gone for good.  Dream on, Zoyd" (10)

perhaps better illustrates what MJ what describing as Pynchon's ability to
modulate "between a kind of hipster vernacular and a more austerely poetic
diction."

The diction does change.  In GR, of course, it's more pronounced.  In
_Vineland_ it's not.  I think given the themes, social commentary, and
overall mood of _Vineland_ there's a reason for that seamlessness between
the formal and informal.  But it's definitely there.

I'm convinced we might do justice to this thread at this point to move away
from this minor sticking point (for, in essence, we are in agreement here)
and consider what Terrance has to offer regarding "privilege."