Children of the Revolution?

[jbor]

on 23/6/03 10:56 AM, Richard Fiero at rfiero at pophost.com wrote:

> I can see that we're in for a deluge of anti-60's stuff.

Including _Vineland_ itself, which is, in large part, a satiric portrait of
student "revolutionaries" in America in the 60s. And it's part and parcel of
Pynchon's ongoing critique of Leftist ideologies and political movements,
and of "phony antifascists" in general.

> I'd 
> take a look at militant-Islam for help identifying the various types of
> actors.

Wha?

> jbor wrote:
>> And, in fact, I think it's possible to read "the man" in this passage as a
>> straight reference to Hector, Zoyd's "old buddy" and "longtime pursuer",
>> rather than as "the Man", the allegorical epithet hippies in the 60s
>> employed when speaking about authority in general (cf. the use of this term
>> in the Watts essay, _GR_), which is how you seem to be reading it. Even if
>> we do read it in this way, Hector, we shall soon enough see, isn't really
>> "the Man" at all any more (if he ever was), and so there's an additional
>> irony at work which undermines the "reliability" of Zoyd's reaction, a
>> reaction which is being filtered through the narrative voice, to the news
>> that Hector has resurfaced and is seeking him out.
> 
> Reading "The Man" for "the man" is perfectly legit here.
> However "The Man" is another way of saying "The Cop" . . . who
> can bust you. "The Man" also has the other connotation jbor
> uses but its roots derive from the parallel streams of
> hipsterese and labor union songs. I can't follow jbor's logic
> here since Hector certainly is "The Man" and is well-defined by
> his intended effect on Zoyd, his motivations and his methods.

It's possible to read it either way, as I said. However, if we do read it as
"The Man", then it's ironically undercut almost immediately when we witness
the actual relationship which Hector and Zoyd have. As they greet one
another it's almost affectionate, even comradely ("He and Hector exchanged
the briefest of thumbgrips." p.11)

best