1984 Foreword "fascistic disposition"

[Dave Monroe]

"Dissident" *means* ...

Main Entry: dis·si·dent 
Pronunciation: -d&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin dissident-, dissidens, present
participle of dissidEre to sit apart, disagree, from
dis- + sedEre to sit -- more at SIT
Date: 1837
: disagreeing especially with an established religious
or political system, organization, or belief
- dissident noun 

http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Again, one need not be against government in order to
disagree with a government, e.g, one can be a
political dissident without being an anarchist, e.g.,
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, George Orwell, Thomas Pynchon
...

--- jbor <jbor at bigpond.com> wrote:
> on 5/5/03 4:44 PM, Dave Monroe wrote:
> 
> > "Dissident" need not imply "anti-government,"
> 
> It *means* anti-government. As I said, the notion
> of a dissident government is oxymoronic. 

Not sure who suggested such a thing as a "dissident
government" in the first place.  Dissidence isn't,
say, an instutition, it's a stance toward one ...

> Applied in the context to Orwell

Or, say, Pynchon ...

> it makes some sense, because the British Labour
> Party - the "official Left" - was in government at
> the time Pynchon is talking about. But "the Left",
> even a "dissident Left", isn't a monolithic bloc.

I'll take "Well, DUH ..." for 500, Alex.  At any rate,
I'm sure it's not like they have meetings or anything.
 "Dissidents Anonymous"?  Bunch a guys getting
together simply to disagree with each other, merely on
principle?  Unimaginable ...

But I have no idea with whom you're arguing now ...

> In the Spanish Civil War, for example, there were
> three "Left" groups opposing the fascists:
> Communist/Soviet, Socialist and the Trade Unions.

Not to mention the motley crew that shows up for, say,
those WTO mtgs., or outside the proceedings at Davos
every January ...

> Even while he was there Orwell's allegiances seemed
> to switch back and forth between the latter two.
> Politically, after that experience, Orwell was more
> of a maverick

As a dissident might well tend to be ...

> and his opinions and affiliations on various
> issues, such as declaring war on Germany,
> were idiosyncratic.

Again ...

Then a buncha other stuff, and ...
 
> I won't quibble over the semantics of it.

The hell you won't.  "My name's Robert, and I'm ..."

> If he's not "anti-government"

No, what was the issue here again?  Quibbling over the
semantics of "anti-government"?  Disagreeing with,
dissenting from, taking a dissident stance toward, a,
the government vs. disagreeing with, being against the
very notion, not to mention practice, of government? 
Can't recall.  Sorry to plead the Reagan, but ...   

> then it's worth asking where and what sort of "pro-
> government"  attitudes are revealed, if any.

That being the task you've set for yourself ...

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