Religious Fundamentalism in Orwell and Pynchon

[jbor]

on 20/5/03 10:33 AM, Terrance wrote:

> 
> You mentioned Ireland. Could be. Israel, Pakistan.
> 
> But I'm guessing that P is talking about the identity of
> religion                       with national states after the breakup of
> the Soviet                                    (Russian) empire.
> 
> Want something exotic? How about the disintegration of Yugoslavia and
> the conflicts inside and outside.

I don't know. It seems a stretch to label any of these as "religious wars",
and it's certainly not in that context that they strike me as "all too
familiar". 

> I noticed
>> recently a subject header which pronounced "1984 evoking 9/11". If that is
>> the assertion then it has to be asked, for whom is this evocation occurring?
> 
> Well, I can evoke it or not. It certainly makes sense to me. Why? Well,
> the questions that P raises are ones that we are asking about our
> government's reaction to 9-11. Does P mention 9-11? No. Does he say or
> imply that bombs falling ....ect is a metaphor for 9-11? No. But I can
> evoke 9-11 from a Foreword written prior to 9-11.
> 
> I'm sure you agree. If you're teaching a GR to students in NYC post 9-11
> and they keep evoking 9-11, it doesn't mean that the students readings
> are wrong. Does P say anything about 9-11 in GR? Well of course not.
> 
> I wouldn't label an evocation of 9-11 from the Foreword subjective, but
> it sure ain't 
> there in the text.

Yes I do agree, but this is the point. Do the society and experience
depicted in _1984_ truly evoke life in America since 9/11, or "circa 2003"?
For anyone? On what basis, when it's not apparent from anything that is
actually written in the Foreword, can the claim be made that Pynchon
believes Orwell's Oceania evokes the U.S.A. post-9/11? This, after all, *is*
the claim which is being made, and it's being made, even if only by a
certain lunatic fringe hereabouts, in order to assert that America really is
just like Oceania and Bush really is just like Big Brother.

best