Religious Fundamentalism in Orwell and Pynchon

[jbor]

>> It's (...) plainly obvious that Pynchon does not refer
>> to 9/11 (...) in the Foreword he has written.
>> 

on 22/5/03 12:28 AM, Otto wrote:
 
> I disagree, it's the question we're discussing, not a fact. I'm sure he does
> refer to 9/11, it's my opinion that this is obvious. But it's the way I
> "read" it, I don't say it's a fact that he does so and thus every other
> reading is deficient. But from the other reviews I've got the impression
> that not only lunatics who claim that 2003 USA equals Orwell's Oceania think
> he is indeed referring to 9/11 in his foreword.

It's plainly obvious that there are no references in the Foreword to 9/11 or
George W. They aren't mentioned. This is a fact. There's a difference
between "refer" and "allude", and between both of these and "evoke".
Important differences.

What we've been discussing is whether Pynchon meant to allude to 9/11 and
Bush's government (and if so, what he's actually saying about them), or
whether he didn't, and that what he has written simply evokes 9/11 and Bush
for some readers, though not for others. It boils down to an argument about
the writer's intention, one which is not going to be resolved by the text in
question. 

I'm not questioning the fact or integrity of you saying what the text does
evoke for you, but it's likewise not possible to question the fact that
there are no literal references to 9/11 in the Foreword. (I'd go even
further to say it's not possible to question the fact that the "fascist
disposition" paragraph - all of it - does refer to England during WW II, and
that the paragraph about Britain's "continuing subservience to Yank
interests" does refer to a foreign policy dynamic which was established in
the latter part of WW II, and which has continued ever since.)

On the other point, no, I didn't say that people such as yourself who
believe, from what the text evokes in your reading of it, that Pynchon does
intentionally allude to 9/11, are lunatics. It's the lunatic fringe - Doug,
primarily - who are using the Foreword to fuel their ongoing propaganda war
in claiming that "America really is just like Oceania and Bush really is
just like Big Brother" (which is what I wrote). Pynchon actually parodies
this type of in(s)anity in the Foreword:

    "Wow, the Government has turned into Big Brother, *just like
    Orwell predicted!* Something, huh?" "Orwellian, dude!" (xvi)

best