VLVL the collapse of...what?

[Bandwraith at aol.com]

In a message dated 2/23/04 4:42:55 PM, jbor at bigpond.com writes:

<< Frenesi's motive is that she likes Brock's cock so much, and she'd do
 anything to have it. And that's precisely how she tries to excuse her
 actions -- "you know what happens when my pussy's runnin' the show."

That it's a very poor excuse for what she does doesn't make her actions 
any less real, or reprehensible. >>

Maybe it's just a very poor rationalization of her behavior on
your part in order to fit your version of the novel.


<< She goes after him, remember (200-1). He tells her what to do, and 
she does it. Willingly. And she kinda gets off on the rough stuff, too. It's 
pretty straightforward, really, and I don't mind taking five minutes to point 
it
out. >>

So she goes after him, so what? Brock is not rough, he's cold 
and sadistic, and her thoughts reveal that she does not 
particularly like it, but is frightened and intimidated by it. 
She mistakenly believes she can help him overcome his fear 
of love and sexuality, but she fails. That's probably what
drives her to seek love elsewhere, with Weed- as much to 
connect with someone who is not afraid of feeling- as to 
see if she can make Brock jealous. She wants to be wanted.

But Brock cannot admit he loves her. All his passion is directed
at Weed.  He's a like terrified little boy with a limited emotional 
repertoire- sad, but dangerous- He's got a gun.

("...ABOUT AS MUCH AS I LIKE CAMERAS!")
 
I love Pynchon, by the way.... 

<< ***

    War in Vietnam, murder as an instrument of American
    politics, black neighborhoods torched to ashes and
    death, all must have been off on some other planet. (38)
 
This is, of course, a narrator's voice. Zoyd and the other hippies of the
"Mellow Sixties" weren't much concerned about any of these things in the
first place, except in the abstract. >>

Which "other hippies" would you be referring to- characters in
the novel? Or, are you attempting to make a connection between
Zoyd and some real people who lived in the real America of that
time- that "other planet"?

<< Frenesi, however, supposedly right in the forefront of the Youth Movement, 
was, or should have been. But after she, and other betrayers like her, had 
brought 
it crashing down, these causes were also lost. The '60s Youth Movement 
achieved nothing, or very little, of its original agenda >>

Which "other betrayers like her" do you mean? characters in the novel? 
Or, some putative real people? And what "Youth Movement"? something 
fictional in the novel, or, are you attempting to make the case that there 
was a specified movement organized by youths in the 60's that was widely
recognized and consciously participated in? And, what was its "original
agenda"? 

The fictional wedding scene from which you've pinched the above
quote seems nice to me. 

("HERE'S YOUR QUOTE:...")

As others have suggested, it seems to be just that type of magic 
necessary to bring to an end some of the horrendous violence and 
deathworshipping rampant in the world at that time- a real victory 
of sorts- something that might be good to keep tucked away in the 
corner of your head in case you're ever unlucky enough to find yourself 
in prison.

respectfully