VLVL College of the Surf and PR3

[Terrance]

> > If this is his point why does he
> > trace the Turnings and Betrayals we have been talking about into Vietnam
> > and back into 50's Hollywood and Cold War organized labor?
> 
> Is there any evidence in the text to support this idea that he's tracing a
> causal sequence between these events?

Yes. Of course there is. One of the things Pynchon is focused on here is
the labor struggle. The Worker. The problem with these kids (Frenesi &
Zoyd's generation)  is that they are violent. The State is very Violent!
But the kids are violent too. They want to get out there and bust stuff
up and bomb the State. Zoyd likes the danger. He loves Hector. Loves
him. Hector loves Zoyd too. It's a Romance. Love in the Western World.
It's the dance of death. 

> 
> > The bickering
> > and the in-fighting, doesn't begin in the late '60s.
> 
> So? Neither do the strong arm tactics of the authorities.

Exactly! You can not distinguish the dancers from the dance and it takes
two to tango. 



> 
> > There is  poignancy
> > in the lost Civil Rights cause for sure, but if Pynchon's point is to
> > tell us his version of what happened by 69 he should get out of the
> > novel writing business.
> 
>         War in Vietnam, murder as an instrument of American
>         politics, black neighborhoods torched to ashes and
>         death, all must have been off on some other planet. (38)
> 
> As I said, I'm not saying it's his only point. I'm pretty sure I don't agree
> with you, but I guess you'll clarify your arguments when you have time.
> 
> >> I don't think he's reducing the whole '60s Student Movement, from
> >> Berkeley to Columbia and beyond, to the farce which is College of the Surf.
> >> Is that what you're arguing his point is?
> >
> > No, Im not arguing that at all. The novel doesn't even address the whole
> > of the 60's student Movement. It's not in the book. We agreed, I think,
> > that VL doesn't take up the free speech movement or the anti-war
> > movement or hundreds of other causes and movements that were active at
> > the time. It's just not in the book.
> 
> I agree. But these causes (civil rights, anti-war) *were* active at Columbia
> in '68. That they're not present at "College of the Surf" in '69 is
> significant. It's worth having a closer look at the meeting between Rex and
> the members of BAAD to illustrate the point I'm making (230-1).

OK, we should do that, but Berkeley is a violent place when Frenesi
attend and when she meets DL. The farm labor organization that Frenesi
goes out to film is an example of the what happens time and time again
in this novel. Remember, this is 67-68, so I can't quite figure out why
you keep going back to Berkeley 64. The brother of the slain president,
the widow of the slain civil rights leader, the mother of JFK, all get
behind the non-violent farmers, but the kids get involved too. Violence.
Get a gun the Man is gonna get a Rocket. But these kids just lover
Rockets.