The Wrath of the Intelligent Designer

[Cyrus]

Joel Katz wrote:

> and what's wrong, exactly, with rationalists trying to limit the 
> growth (for starters) of organized religion in this country, legally 
> and politically?


Nothing. I was talking about the average invisible-entity-in-the-sky 
believing individuals. These should be tolerated. Powerful religious 
institutions seeking to extend their influence should be battered 
mercilessly.

> huh?  people "need" religion?  what people, who are you speaking for?  
> this is the kind of indulgence i i was talking about -- as if there 
> were an acceptable minimum of social psychosis.


Yes, they do. Out of (as you said) cowardice, self-interest, cynicism, 
miseducation, frivolity, etc. But you speak as if there could be a world 
without social psychoses. I'd like to see that.

> this is the only country in the developed world in which religious 
> participation is going up over the last 30-40 years (and this country 
> was way more secular, or at least much more diligent about the 
> separation of church and state, back then).  in france, 12% of people 
> say they belong to a church (less actually go).
> to what do you attribute the difference?  american "rugged 
> individualism"?  how about cowardice, self-interest, cynicism, 
> miseducation, frivolity.


To what do I attribute the difference? Feel free to point any holes in 
my argument, but I'd say it's evangelism. In catholic France (to take 
your example), to become a priest you have to make certain sacrifices 
and follow a certain way of life (well, ideally, at least); in the 
evangelical USA, any crackpot with a hunger for power can open his own 
church. In France, to be considered a good christian you have to be nice 
to people and do good deeds (again, ideally); in the evangelical USA, to 
be considered a good christian you have to proselytize anyone you  meet 
in your workplace or in the street.

Oh, and tax-exempt status? In Greece, the priests's salaries are paid by 
the government! Try to top that!

Cyrus