Christian ideas refracted thru AtD: 1) Forgiveness (spoilers galore)

[kelber at mindspring.com]

Forgiveness, vengefulness, kindness, charity, jealousy, etc. are human emotions.  They may be described in the Bible, but that doesn't give christianity dibs on them.  The cross became a symbol of christianity because Christ (along with lots of others, unsung) was nailed to one.  Why?  Because a cross is humanoid in shape.  Easier to nail someone to than, say, a crescent.  Now any time someone stretches their arms out to their sides to bring some cool air to their armpits, they become a "christ figure."  I understand that a lot of writers and film directors deliberately evoke these emotions and images for their christian symbolism.  But that doesn't mean that's what Pynchon is driving at.  Sometimes revenge is a cry for justice -- human justice.  I think the issue of whether Webb is a good guy or a bad guy for dynamiting enemy targets IS a central issue in ATD.  But that doesn't make it a battle between the Testaments.  Finding easy christian symbolism in Pynchon's works reduces rather than enhances the meaning.

Laura




>From: bekah <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net>

>
>Oh I loved it,  Mike.  It's a keeper for me - even if I may not go 
>along with ascribing "forgiveness" (or the futility of revenge?) 
>solely to a "Christian"  use,  I certainly appreciate the thematic 
>ideas.
>
>Bekah
>
>At 10:08 AM +0000 12/23/06, mikebailey at speakeasy.net wrote:

>>
>>Central Christian virtue: forgiveness
>>
>>AtD contains an extended meditation on revenge.  As the guy said in 
>>Fight Club, "How's that working for you?"
>>It's not just a patriarchal phallologocentric thing: Mayva's into it too.
>>
>>For Webb, it messes up his family life (he even mentions that 
>>post-mortem, channeled through Reef.)  Also, he never has time to 
>>think.
>>This means he doesn't have time to develop his utopian ideas, but 
>>instead develops destructive talents more in keeping with the 
>>capitalism he's fighting -- and maybe has never figured out that his 
>>violent actions provoke and are used to excuse the escalations of 
>>the capitalists.  He's shocked when he learns that they use his 
>>chosen weapon.
>>
>>As for the rest of the family it seems to me they are given time to 
>>think things over, and prosper to the extent that they give up on 
>>revenge.
>>
>>"Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord" and for once, I 
>>find this Old Testament precept complements nicely the New Testament 
>>commandment to forgive.  It will be taken care of (as also per 
>>Jesse's Emerson quote in Vineland) -- meanwhile, if we can interact 
>>kindly we may even make of our enemy a friend and find a way for 
>>them to clear their karma, which in turn may help us to avoid our 
>>own bad karma...contrast that with creating more bad karma by 
>>insisting on revenge -- Jesus was a genius!
>>
>>Lake's sexual connection to Deuce sidesteps the issue of 
>>forgiveness, though her actions walk pretty far along the path of 
>>forgiveness.  In the end his own actions (refracted as they may be 
>>from the mysterious crime Lew Basnight committed way back in 
>>Chicago?) lead to his downfall.
>>
>>Frank doesn't derive any particular satisfaction from killing Sloat, 
>>or for that matter from blowing up the train.  When he breaks with 
>>the revolutionists, it only means "a few more beans for somebody 
>>else" -- the flat affect emanating from that interpretation 
>>indicates he's moved on, that continuing these hostilities just 
>>doesn't make emotional sense to him.
>>
>>Reef's notion of revenge is too diffuse, and defused by his own 
>>proficiency in sex, gambling and style, to become a way of life. 
>>That he should end up with Yashmeen is in a way a travesty - her 
>>mathematical talent passed over -- and in some pseudo-psychological 
>>way I'm tempted to see the Goettingen scenes as a way for Pynchon to 
>>glance down the road of math that he didn't take.  I wouldn't think 
>>he'd have a lot of regrets, as what he turned his hand to has 
>>thriven mightily.  But I'd have liked to see Kit & Yashmeen hook 
>>up...(my own jealousy of Reef, who is cooler and gets more action 
>>than I, comes into play here)  However, some semblance of stability 
>>and gaining of emotional depth for Reef, and the (for me anyway) 
>>very affecting triangle with Cyprian does compensate.
>>
>>Poor Cyprian internalizes forgiveness -- turning the other (butt) 
>>cheek, enjoying the pain, sexualizing the humiliation, all that 
>>stuff.  I'm not really into that, but I'm close enough to being into 
>>it that I really enjoyed the description.  That is, I've tasted 
>>enough abuse in my life that I've wondered whether I do have a taste 
>>for it, for it to happen to me so much - though by most standards 
>>I've had it pretty easy...but anyway...
>>
>>Kit - I haven't begun to assimilate what all happens to him at the 
>>end.  However, Foley Walker's eventual disposal of Scarsdale Vibe is 
>>another instantiation of the principle that victims needn't 
>>retaliate.  And moreover, Kit's math genius dwindles after his final 
>>interview with Vibe.  I see that as, he can't get beyond the tainted 
>>nature of the arrangement, and since he's preoccupied with that he 
>>doesn't have time to think.  Also I think that in Vibe's office, he 
>>thinks he's totally concealing his resolution to get even, but I got 
>>the distinct feeling that he wasn't...I wonder if anything in the 
>>text supports that...
>>
>>  Mayva's desire for revenge really comes from loyalty to Webb.  But 
>>in her own right, she's been a Bible-thumper all along (like DL's 
>>mom in Vineland) and makes her own accommodation with the 
>>bourgeoisie.  I suspect but have no textual evidence that the ice 
>>cream parlor might have been a victim of her occasionally NOT 
>>swallowing retorts and eating crow...but it may have been that a 
>>maid gig just is less wearisome than owning a small business.  She 
>>knows her desire for revenge is a sin, but she doesn't turn from 
>>what she considers to be the source of forgiveness...
>>
>>Foley Walker and Scarsdale Vibe: wow!  There's your Iceland Spar 
>>effect...   Vibe reflects the intransigence of the Rockefellers -- 
>>those bastids actually ruined or co-opted the mine owners who had 
>>settled with the union, and brought the militant arm of the 
>>government in on something that should have been settled in 
>>courtrooms and meetings.  (so in a way Webb's implacable hatred 
>>reflects Vibe's implacable bastardly greed)
>>
>>But Foley Walker's assuming Vibe's identity -- and really it is he 
>>who does practice Christian outreach, since the scholarship for Kit 
>>and the prescient stock tips are his ideas, which stem from voices 
>>he hears rather than logical analysis -- being as one might say a 
>>forgiving victim, since he bore for Vibe numerous pains and cared 
>>for him, a friend closer than a brother.  Forgiving 70 times 7.  And 
>>perhaps Walker is like the imaginary dude in Fight 
>>Club...hmmmm......but in any case, he saves Frank from blood-guilt, 
>>and (perhaps) assumes the rest of Vibe's identity...
>>
>>Is how it lines up for me...
>