Vineland

[Paul Mackin]

On Mar 3, 2006, at 11:31 AM, Ghetta Life wrote:

>
> Good post, Michael.  Almost you persuade me to believe.
>
> All of the observations you list below are in the book to some  
> degree, but they are mostly in shorthand/cartoon form.  They  
> certainly represent Pynchon's "philosophy" of power relations,  
> which is I think the whole exploratory point of Vineland.  He  
> really does seem to see the workings of freedom vs fascism as some  
> kind of extended time-frame dance between all participants:  "this  
> long daisy chain of victimizers and victims, screwers and  
> screwees" (V. p.49).  This dance surface most literally in the  
> street fights between police and protesters in GR and VL:
>
> 117.30 - Frenesi dreamed of a mysterious people's oneness [...]  
> achieved [...] in short, timeless bursts, all paths, human and  
> projectile, true, the people in a single presence [...] to  
> transcend, almost beyond will to move smoothly between baton and  
> victim...
>
> My biggest problem with Vineland is Frenesi.  She embodies some  
> abstract dynamic, and Pynchon teases us with the hope of some  
> character development, ans some scrutability,  but then he never  
> delivers.  And Frenesi is only the most extreme example of this,  
> what I'll call a fault, in Vineland

Wouldn't too much psychologizing on an individual level have gotten  
in the way of the big picture here?

Is Frenesi important as a person, or mainly as the carrier of an  
idea? Does anyone think she herself has much seriousness of purpose?  
Does she have any character to develop? No one would ever say that  
the sixties generation didn't have serious concerns available to them  
(war, race) but were the boys and girls of Vineland focussing on  
them? Was revolutionary film making in itself a serious undertaking?   
It could be if turned on the real considerations of the time. In  
Vineland it seems like just a counter-culture thing to do. Sex,  
Drugs, and Rock n Roll. Pynchon paints his revolutionaries  as  
children with disabling  childish insecurities. We remember  
especially that famous passage. Of course disabling insecurities are  
a pretty universal problem in trying to change the world. Among  
grownups too.  As you say Pynchon is good on these things.  He is a  
novelist of ideas.

But we might ask ourselves just who if anybody were the truly serious  
persons of Vineland?  Bound to be exceptions.








>
> Ghetta
>
>> From: "Michael Bailey" <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
>>
>> thinking of Frenesi as symbol or representative, I think some of  
>> the labor background, seguing into the counterculture, is  
>> important, ie Frenesi's forebears
>>
>> going back to the beginning of the 20th century where her  
>> grandparents were both staunch Wobblies at a time when the forces  
>> of the - oh, I don't want to call it "the Left" but anyway that  
>> whole crowd of people who were looking for the next step beyond  
>> the institutionalized feudalism that is the seamy aspect of  
>> capitalism - were arrayed strongly and were actual contenders  
>> before Woodrow "he kept us out of war" Wilson chopped them off at  
>> the knees... before the stars of Gustavus Myers's "History of the  
>> Great American Fortunes" had solidified their hegemony
>>
>> and that couple stood together and kept the faith, "didn't mourn,  
>> but organized"
>>
>> and then Frenesi's mom kind of flew the coop, sang in a swing band  
>> and met up with her Dad, whose desire to work with the new  
>> lighting equipment finally drove him to switch to Reagan's  
>> scabrous union - so they had fallen away to some extent

>
> Ghetta
>
>> From: "Michael Bailey" <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
>>
>> thinking of Frenesi as symbol or representative, I think some of  
>> the labor background, seguing into the counterculture, is  
>> important, ie Frenesi's forebears
>>
>> going back to the beginning of the 20th century where her  
>> grandparents were both staunch Wobblies at a time when the forces  
>> of the - oh, I don't want to call it "the Left" but anyway that  
>> whole crowd of people who were looking for the next step beyond  
>> the institutionalized feudalism that is the seamy aspect of  
>> capitalism - were arrayed strongly and were actual contenders  
>> before Woodrow "he kept us out of war" Wilson chopped them off at  
>> the knees... before the stars of Gustavus Myers's "History of the  
>> Great American Fortunes" had solidified their hegemony
>>
>> and that couple stood together and kept the faith, "didn't mourn,  
>> but organized"
>>
>> and then Frenesi's mom kind of flew the coop, sang in a swing band  
>> and met up with her Dad, whose desire to work with the new  
>> lighting equipment finally drove him to switch to Reagan's  
>> scabrous union - so they had fallen away to some extent
>>
>> by Frenesi's time, involving herself in a counterculture media  
>> project- and a brave one - was the most happening thing she could  
>> do, but confronted with the power and charm of Brock Vond, her  
>> underpinnings just weren't solid enough to "just say no" -- I  
>> think of her acceding to his desire as an instance of "Stockholm  
>> Syndrome"
>>
>> those who oppose an existing regime often face a circumstance  
>> where the power is on the other side, and the labor movement/peace  
>> movement have seen many such moments.  who can really blame  
>> Frenesi for giving up when it seemed inevitable that the Reaction  
>> win and its personification "had use" for her
>>
>> yet the Emerson quote at the family reunion points to a justice  
>> beyond such "trials by combat" and note that her mom and dad never  
>> stopped loving her either
>>
>> I sort of like to trace all the labor movement back to who was it,  
>> Pius XIIIth had a bull about social justice...
>>
>> anyway, that's only one of the skeins in Vineland, it's an awesome  
>> book I tell ye...
>>
>
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