What are you reading

Sun Oct 15 13:03:10 CDT 2006

That said (and posted to quickly) you're right about bad translations 
(lol - to some)  and I generally  try to get the best translation 
available.  Thank goodness for the net where I can check that out 
pretty easily.

Bekah

At 10:31 AM -0700 10/15/06, bekah wrote:
>Poetry is probably the hardest literary form to translate because 
>poetry is based entirely on style and style just can't really be 
>translated.
>
>Bekah
>
>
>At 7:00 PM +0300 10/15/06, Ya Sam wrote:
>>It cuts both ways actually. Without translators such thing as world 
>>literature is impossible of course. So lucky are we when we come 
>>across good translations. On the other hand, we are very unlucky to 
>>read atrocious ones. I also have something to quote, by Robert 
>>Burns (my hero :)
>>
>>On Elphinstone's Translation Of Martial's Epigrams
>>
>>1787
>>
>>O Thou whom Poetry abhors,
>>Whom Prose has turned out of doors,
>>Heard'st thou yon groan?-proceed no further,
>>'Twas laurel'd Martial calling murther.
>>
>>http://www.robertburns.org/works/162.shtml
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: bekah <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>To: "Ya Sam" <takoitov at hotmail.com>, ottosell at googlemail.com
>>>CC: pynchon-l at waste.org
>>>Subject: Re: What are you reading
>>>Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 08:15:02 -0700
>>>
>>>But without translators I would never be able to read Pamuk who 
>>>writes in Turkish or Imre Kertész or Saramago or  many others.   I 
>>>love international fiction but I'm no linguist so  I would not 
>>>even be able to read Marquez Garcia without translation.    I 
>>>would not know Tolstoy or Mahfouz or Camus or Pasternak or Hesse 
>>>or Grass or Mann or Undset or dozens of other internationally 
>>>acclaimed authors. Yes,  much of the style is lost,  but, if the 
>>>translator is worth his stuff,   the ideas remain and one of the 
>>>most important reasons I read is for ideas - with me it's probably 
>>>more important than style or plot or other elements of literature. 
>>>What good is a stylist without ideas?
>>>
>>>There are special awards for translators now,  and John Carey (my 
>>>hero) gave a wonderful speech at the last Mann Booker 
>>>International award ceremony in which he gave praise to 
>>>translators. 
>>><http://www.canongate.net/News/John-Careys-Presentation-Speech>
>>>
>>>
>>>This brings me to the subject of translators. We should like, as 
>>>judges, to pay tribute to translators, without whose labours the 
>>>International Prize could not have happened. Translators, it seems 
>>>to us, bring nations and races together far more effectively than 
>>>statesmen or politicians, who often do the opposite. Translators 
>>>are heroes, working against impossible odds. For in truth there is 
>>>no such thing as an accurate translation - no such thing as a 
>>>linguistic equivalent in one language for a word in another. 
>>>Languages are closed systems, separate planets with their own 
>>>atmospheres of thought and feeling. Even loan words from another 
>>>language become something different when they are transplanted 
>>>into their new climate. Brain scientists now tell us that the 
>>>language we use modifies our neural pathways, so that an English 
>>>speaker's brain organisation, for example, is different from that 
>>>of someone who speaks, say, Italian or Japanese. So translators 
>>>are trying to join up differently organised brains. Of course, 
>>>translators must strive to hide these problems. They are benign 
>>>deceivers. They must make us feel that what we are reading is not 
>>>a translation at all, but the author's work. The judges are 
>>>delighted that the rules of the Man Booker International Prize 
>>>have now been modified to include a special award for the winning 
>>>author's translator.
>>>
>>>It is a sign of the disrespect in which translators have 
>>>customarily been held, and a sign too of the parochialism of the 
>>>British literary scene, that foreign literature in translation is 
>>>so neglected. As Alberto Manguel pointed out in an article in the 
>>>Spectator, if you speak Spanish or French or Italian or German, or 
>>>any of a dozen other languages, and walk into your local 
>>>bookstore, you will find translations of a fair sampling of most 
>>>of the important books written around the world. You will find 
>>>what is being imagined in China, what stories are being told in 
>>>Korea, how the novel is being reinvented in Spain and the 
>>>Scandinavian countries. But if you live in England you will find 
>>>no such abundance. When we checked through our original list of 
>>>120 contestants, we found that we had to disqualify writer after 
>>>writer, not on grounds of quality or stature, but because they 
>>>were not generally available in English translation. Frequently 
>>>they had been translated back in the 80s or 90s, but the publisher 
>>>had allowed the translations to go out of print. So we were unable 
>>>to consider, for example, Peter Handke or Michel Tournier or 
>>>Christoph Ransmayr or Antonio Lobo Antunes or Rachid Boudjedra or 
>>>Fernando Vallejo - and so on. No doubt publishers have 
>>>difficulties of their own to struggle with. But to an outsider the 
>>>British publishing industry can seem like a conspiracy intent on 
>>>depriving English-speaking readers of the majority of the good 
>>>books written in languages other than their own. Alberto Manguel 
>>>is surely right to point out that the same laxity, fifty or sixty 
>>>years ago, would have meant, for the English reader, no Kafka, no 
>>>Camus, no Calvino, no Borges. The judges hope that the advent of 
>>>the Man Booker International Prize will encourage British 
>>>publishers to reverse this trend. No other single outcome could, 
>>>in our view, matter more.
>>>
>>>Bekah
>>>Blessed are the translators for they shall know style.
>>>
>>>At 4:59 PM +0300 10/14/06, Ya Sam wrote:
>>>>That is why I prefer to read in the original and will keep trying 
>>>>to get the reading knowledge of as many languages as possible. A 
>>>>bad translator can butcher the text and disfigure it beyond 
>>>>recognition. LD is a very dense text, rich in vocabulary and 
>>>>cerainly requires an expert translator. There is a good article 
>>>>on translation by Norfolk himself in which he says the following:
>>>>
>>>>"A writer-in-translation is as isolated as a general in his 
>>>>bunker trying simultaneously to direct a war on twenty or more 
>>>>fronts. The dispatches come through (or fail to) but, reduced as 
>>>>they are to their bare essentials, it is hard to know how the 
>>>>conflict as a whole is going."
>>>>
>>>>http://www.barcelonareview.com/20/e_ln.htm
>>>>
>>>>>From: Otto <ottosell at googlemail.com>
>>>>>To: "Ya Sam" <takoitov at hotmail.com>
>>>>>CC: pynchon-l at waste.org
>>>>>Subject: Re: What are you reading
>>>>>Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 15:34:27 +0200
>>>>>
>>>>>Critical review about the flawed (?) German translation of Norfolk's book:
>>>>>
>>>>>Stetige Bumser im Rücken
>>>>>Die Qualität einer Übersetzung läßt sich durchaus beurteilen
>>>>>Von Dieter E. Zimmer (Nabokov specialist)
>>>>>DIE ZEIT/Feuilleton,
>>>>>Nr.6, 5.Februar 1993, S.56
>>>>>http://tinyurl.com/ynaywt
>>>>>
>>>>>Eleven literary translators had written an open letter to the
>>>>>publisher. Their demand was to the destroy the books and that there
>>>>>should be a new translation. The publisher answered by threatening to
>>>>>sue them.
>>>>>
>>>>>"At the mention of pork the place erupts."
>>>>>"Bei der Nennung des Schweins explodiert der Platz."
>>>>>
>>>>>-- but you simply cannot say that in German, and "center of gravity"
>>>>>isn't "Mittelpunkt des Schwergewichtes".
>>>>>
>>>>>Nevertheless, there's a 60-pages "Journal of the Translator" at the
>>>>>end of the book which is quite helpful for the historical background
>>>>>of the novel.
>>>>>
>>>>>Otto
>>>>>
>>>>>2006/10/10, Ya Sam <takoitov at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>>  >"Barbarus hic ego sum
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Exactly what I feel while reading this book. Norfolk did his 
>>>>>>homework well.
>>>>>>Very informative as well, i.e. I didn't know that the Romans 
>>>>>>had the goddess
>>>>>>of sewers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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