ATDTDA - petroleurs, p.19

[kelber at mindspring.com]

I think anarchy and terrorism are a major theme in ATD, with the shadow of 9-11 floating through, and trying to figure out TRP's attitudes on the subject as we go through the group read is going to be interesting and fun. 

Laura

-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Jan 28, 2007 1:22 PM
>To: kelber at mindspring.com
>Subject: Re: ATDTDA - petroleurs, p.19
>
>Okay..yes, he deserves lots of sympathy for the injustices he has seen and knows are wrong, but I cannot believe that TRP wants us to FULLY identify with someone who has presumably killed (innocent) people for those beliefs.
>   
>  When Tancredi attempts to assassinate Scarsdale, not an innocent, their is a narratorial line about his 
>  '"terrible intention".-----a moral judgment?
>   
>  I think I will find more stuff on backunderstanding and rereading. I'll see.
>   
>  I think TRP sees bomb-wielding anarchists as caught in the same web [sic] of evil as the rotten owners...those who destroy lives with a pen, with capital. 
>   
>  TRP's sympathies in ATD I think, as in his other fiction, rest with the powerless just trying to 'get through the(ir) day".   See other remarks on the non-violent straands of anarchism I sent, the anarchist tradition I think Pynchon feels was lost along Time's/ History's axis.
>   
>  How does anyone explain the intertwined characters in the plot? His daughter with his killers?    In Hawthorne, Melville, that would show "the sins of the fathers"......Pynchon is
>  up there with them in his overarching meanings---and talent. 
>
>kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
>  I don't find anything in these passages that suggests that Webb is a bad or morally ambiguous character. The "note of reproach" in his voice while crying out his sons's names as he's being tortured to death seems more directed towards his sons than expressing any regret at his own life. 
>
>On p. 193, the full sentence:
>
>"Having succeeded one way or another in driving away his whole family, Webb was joining the company of those who, with their judgment similarly impaired, had allowed themselves to be charmed by Deuce Kindred, to their great consequent sorrow."
>
>I personally feel that Webb is one of the most, if not the most, sympathetic characters in the book. His tragic flaw being that he spent too much time being an anarchist to be a good father. His initial impulse towards Deuce Kindred is a fatherly one. Before the sentence quoted above, Webb lays " a reassuring hand on the kid's shoulder ... not feeling or choosing to ignore Deuce's flinch." Webb has presumably killed people in his anarchist attacks, but comes across as a kind and decent person with his own moral code (p.87). He's a solid good guy. His sons seem to feel sporadic guilt towards not avenging his death. Their lack of vengeance doesn't become a central tragedy of their lives. They move on. Lake, of course, is a different story. She may be the one who exerts the ultimate vengeance on Deuce.
>
>
>Laura
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mark Kohut 
>
>> How about the "note of reproach in his [own] voice" on P. 197 as "he watched the light over the ranges slowly draining away", p 198
>> 
>> "his judgment similarly impaired" onp 193
>> 
>> looking for more.
>> 
>> How about the fate of revenge and what it does to his sons..and how TRP comments on that later in the novel?....(gotta find).
>>
>> and his daughter' s meaning in the novel, mated [sic] with his killers? 
>> Author commenting on Webb's relationship to other killers?
>> 
>> His name....one meaning: to traverse (moral) boundaries?
>>kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
>> Can you cite any specific examples?
>>
>>Laura
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Mark Kohut 
>>
>>> 
>>> I think there is plenty of textual evidence for only sympathizing so far with Webb.....and never with his 'terrorizing".
>>>
>>>kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
>>
>>The theme of the double nature of the anarchist/terrorist runs throughout the book. We sympathize with "good" terrorists like Webb, while fearing, subliminally, along with Pynchon, "bad" terrorists like al-Quaeda.
>>>
>>>
>>>Laura
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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