Sex and power in History

[Mark Kohut]

Don't we think---I do--that pynchon sees these sexual 'power' relationships as consequences 
  of the power warping of History?

rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
    Pynchon is very much concerned with systems of control including sexual ones. That Frenesi and Lake are turned on by uniforms and bad dudes doesn't surprise me. But many of his other characters exhibit an attraction to bondage, submission, dominance. 
  what i'm saying is that if it is considered an abstraction then it's a pretty constant one throughout his ouevre and not a sexual one solely
   
  rich
 
  On 6/4/07, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:   Just to be clear (because I'm not sure I've been so), I think Frenesi
& Lake *represent* some abstract aspect of some power/sexual dynamic 
for Pynchon, but don't ask me to explain what.   And I think that they
suffer as characters because they are burdened to portray that
abstraction.  THAT is what I consider Pynchon's Achilles heel,
producing characters like Frenesi & Lake (who I think it was Tore that 
called them parallel characters) that most people struggle for an
understanding of their motives.  Some here think they've figured their
"complexities."  I think their complexities are really their 
incomprehensibilities as human beings.

David Morris

On 6/4/07, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
> come on dave, achilles heel?  I strike it up in the case of Lake of having somewhat difficult relations with her Dad, Frenesi as well.  Them Traverse families, eh?   would u say the same about Cyprian's choice in the Balkans with the double-crosser dude--cyprian's choices ain't that too good either. the heart is inscrutable remember 
>
> rich
>
>
> On 6/4/07, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I don't know about the specifics of representative roles of Lake (and others) in AtD, but I suspect some sort of political and/or  psychological dialectic is at work.  How else can one explain characters behaving so incomprehensibly?  I'm sure that's also why I've never been able to understand Frenesi's motives in VL (and why her character seems such a dead-ender).  In both cases I think they represent a massive Achilles heel in Pynchon's fictional world.  His theories can produce characters and scenarios that leave one cold and scratching one's head. 




       
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